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Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

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131–140 of 161 posts

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study is really just "smoking linked to higher risk".

Smoking a joint is every bit as bad as smoking a cigarette, in terms of carcinogens/tar and other nastiness, but most people aren't two-pack-a-day joint smokers so dose is typically lower. It still isn't healthy though.

IIRC smoking a joint is actually worse than smoking a cigarette, one-for-one, because of the filter a cig has. Smoking joints, the activity, is still said to be healthier than smoking cigarettes, because of the disparity in cylinders-consumed-per-day in average users, as the parent points out. That said, outliers, like Sublime's frontman Bradley Nowell, do exist. [0] Humour on HN is a risky business, but what I'm trying to imply is that I've known people who would find it quite reasonable to smoke two joints before they smoked two joints, and then they'd smoke two more. That's worse than a cigarette habit. Vapes, on the other hand...

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0i62GnQoo0

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your mind, does this only apply to cannabis, or any mental-health related medication?

There are people who need to use prescribed medications to help regulate their mental health (usually in addition to psychotherapy), however I don't include cannabis in that realm. Cannabis (THC) has properties that (in some, not all and sometimes the reverse) reduce anxiety however, from what I've seen and experienced, cannabis is by in large used to self-medicate instead of seek real treatment.

We all need relief. You have your television, others have a substance that makes them more relaxed, introspective, creative, and appreciative of art and life.

Life is tough, it’s not hard to understand that a substance that has the above effects with less side effects than most popular drugs could be enjoyed responsibly.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#133
post #103
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how no one ever says this about caffeine intake. Surely you also think people who drink coffee every day are relying on a crutch and are drug addicts that need therapy.

> Funny how no one ever says this about caffeine intake. Surely you also think people who drink coffee every day are relying on a crutch and are drug addicts that need therapy Lots of people say this. I'll even say it right now. If you need caffeine to function, you should probably talk to a doctor. Drinking coffee every day does not mean it's a crutch. If it becomes a crutch, you should talk to a mental health profe…

You say this when someone brings up their daily coffee in real life, and not just this one time online?

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#134

It’s strange that all of the comments are looking for ways to dismiss this result (and this seems to happen generally with negative cannabis findings online). Is it not entirely possible a drug and method of consumption which stresses the cardiovascular system increases odds of an adverse cardiovascular event?

Every HN science article is commenters dismissing the results of the study.

I would think that people who disagree with an article would have more to say.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a few new sativa vapes recently and was hitting them both pretty hard. I got smacked with a really disturbing heart issue that felt like it was being severely over worked. It was so bad I was on my front porch in n the dark resolved to dying. I didn't in now what was going to happen. I'll admit that I'm a lightweight but I had to stop with the "turpine pens." Now I just smoke dry herb because I know how to regu…

Sativa can give people anxiety and it can feel like a heart issue. Pens make it easier to get a bigger hit than a normal joint dose, so take smaller puffs.

I think it is completely dependent on the person. Some people get anxiety from the bodily effects of indicas while some people seek out those muscle-relaxing, stress-clearing ”stoned” effects.

Some people get anxiety from the high-flying thoughts brought about by sativas and some people seek out those idea-provoking cerebral ”high” effects.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reefer Madness was released in 1936, so closer to eight decades. The rule changes in the 60s were more about racial, for lack of better word, control than anything. Without wanting to sound all pot-head hippy, this plant seems to be pretty magical. If it turns out that the "good" stuff can be used by removing the one part that gets you high, then we've lost so much potential because of fearmongering. It's infuriating…

Science as a whole is under attack, from the right.

while i don’t disagree with you at all, it’s not just from the right. the whole anti-vaccination movement started on the opposite side of the political rainbow.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#137
post #71

I had my MI at age 43. Other than _smoking_ weed (via a bong) daily I was in good shape with regular exercise, etc. (5+ miles hiking in hills every day with my dog, at the bare minimum). After 3 stents I became much more conscientious about all my intakes and activities. I reduced my weed consumption, but began to notice that I would get angina pain about 20 minutes after smoking. Not after hiking or biking, or any p…

Did you switch to vaping concentrates or dry herb? I recently switched to a dry herb vape because concentrates were concerning me for other reasons.

Just dried herb/flower. Yeah, concentrates would be hard for me to trust, too.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that many of the commenters are pointing out that this study is poorly done in some key areas, which make any kind of conclusions based on it of little value.

We’re not going to get large scale randomized controlled trials for marijuana use any time soon. We can definitely debate the methods.. but the findings from this growing body of evidence should probably be the ‘default’ stance, until we see more causal or controlled correlational evidence pointing the other way.

Default stance is should be that there are no negative effects.

You’re basically saying the science is bad yet we should still make conclusions based on it. Which only means those conclusions will also be bad.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#139
post #111

It’s strange that all of the comments are looking for ways to dismiss this result (and this seems to happen generally with negative cannabis findings online). Is it not entirely possible a drug and method of consumption which stresses the cardiovascular system increases odds of an adverse cardiovascular event?

That’s because you can’t have a rational discussion about cannabis online. Anything negative is dismissed, apologised away, compared immediately to alcohol or you are accused of providing anecdotes by the proponents. This in itself dismisses the credibility of the proponents in my mind. The funny thing is you don’t see this with alcoholics. They know what they’re doing is bad and admit it easily but can’t stop.

You must not know many alcoholics if you think they all know what they are doing is bad, or even how it is bad.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#140

I'll gladly take this risk considering cannabis preserves my sanity and keeps me away from the trough of sorrow.

Sounds like therapy would be very useful then. If you’re having to self-medicate to maintain sanity, the substances are only a crutch. Speaking from personal experience.

Mental illness is really difficult and complicated, and I don't think there's a strategy that works well for everyone. My experience was the opposite of yours: I experienced horrible depression for years on end, and therapy always seemed to make me feel better for the afternoon, but when the feeling faded after a couple hours, I was no better than I had been. I concluded that it was a nice relief, but it wasn't resolving the problem.

To my mind, resolving a mental health issue is a bit like resolving a technical issue like a slow-loading web page. Similar looking problems can be caused by a lot of different things in the toolchain. Just in my case alone, I have identified causes in the spiritual, physical, psychological, and lifestyle domains. As in, I know certain things cause the problem because I can trigger it via those methods, and ameliorate it by avoiding certain things or embracing certain strategies!

I think if you have a problem with a cause that is well-addressed by therapy, it will work very well for you. That doesn't invalidate that other people have other problems in other areas addressed by other strategies.

If you hang out around people talking about mental health issues, you will hear some really weird stories. Like, I'll tell you one about me: the final lingering symptom of the depression was suicidal ideation. It was more or less of a problem for me for about ten years -- more or less once a week I'd wake up thinking, "I hate my life, I want to die". You know what finally put it to bed, dead and gone, really truly doesn't bother me anymore? Tactical firearms training. I kid you not.

Buuuuuuuuut it's not really a path I'd recommend to anyone else. ;)

Medicating mental health issues -- either under professional supervision or not -- is a huge hot button issue for some people. It can be a lifesaver and it can be a life destroyer and people have really strong experiences with it and strong opinions about it. I think the whole discussion is emotionally magnified precisely because insanity is so horrible and people need there to be solutions that work. Desperation and trauma are an environment that breed superstition and excessive faith, and make thoughtful inquiry and understanding difficult. That's not evil - it's just human. Nasty problems are hard to think about clearly.

It sure is a funny space, though, because there seem to be so many solutions that work for some people. Some people are able to solve seemingly intractable mental health problems with diet - Jordan Peterson is a famous case, for example, of someone who approached a terrible anxiety problem with a very exotic diet and found it effective. You can find a lot of less famous cases of that. And the recreational drug side of it has some remarkable stories, too. Some that seem miraculous and amazing, and some that seem like people haven't really gotten a handle on what's going on.

I'd say "let people try stuff", but I don't even think that's the right approach. As you say, a substance may be a crutch for a specific person, which doesn't rule out the possibility that it's a cure for another, but which on the other hand doesn't rule out the possibility that someone who thinks it's a cure for them is wrong. I think it's good to tell each other about the pitfalls we know of and to try to improve our understanding. Sometimes people think they've gotten things right, and they're really wrong. Then again, sometimes extraordinary things are right. And on the third hand, perhaps you're one of those weird cases that really won't respond unless you eliminate broccoli from your diet or have a priest pray for you or go on a guided meditation with the right guide or become a decent marksman with pistols. Perhaps you need something weird and you haven't found it yet, and maybe you never will, and a crutch that lets you live your life in the mean time is very important.

I guess all I'm trying to say is this whole thing is a big, complicated, messy problem. I certainly have my own fears and bad experiences in the domain, and I do try to let people know about the dangers I wish I'd known of. In fact, I mostly agree with you - long term medication of mental health issues is very scary for me, and I'd have a hard time not wanting to check up on someone who was doing it and make sure they were sure sure that this was a good idea, just because so often it turns out not to be. But I also think in this space, you have to give people a lot of room to do what works for them. Sometimes it's really weird stuff.

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