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Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

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Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#641

Post by sitkack »

dragonwriter wrote: post #586
zosima wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Murray was as far as can be determined acting in good faith. The general argument of the Bell Curve, that people from different parts of the world have wildly different distributions on many different attributes, is (or ought to be) completely non-controversial, consistent with almost all scientific evidence and obvious.

> The general argument of the Bell Curve, that people from different parts of the world have wildly different distributions on many different attributes, is (or ought to be) completely non-controversial It is. None of the controversy over the book is about that orbital-level view.

If the sources are bad, how can you make any such statement about conclusions in the work? To state as fact what is and is not controversial regarding the Bell Curve, smells a bit like your Gas Light is possible not combusting properly.

Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#642

Post by dang »

xibalba wrote: post #417

If Chomsky’s solutions are bunk, what is the value of his argument? See also: the last 250 years of economic history.

Please don't take HN threads further into generic ideological flamewar. That basically always heads into less interesting discussion.

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Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#643

Post by dang »

xyzzyz wrote: post #516

The problem is that socialism inevitably leads to authoritarianism through its very nature. See, for example, Hayek’s “The Road to Serfdom”, where he lays this case pretty extensively.

Please don't take HN threads further into generic ideological flamewar. That basically always heads into less interesting discussion.

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Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#646

Post by dang »

tomp wrote: post #441

Shame on you, this is a "no true scotsman" argument. "I don't want to argue X but proceeds to argue X " is a common yet despicable rhetoric trick.

Please don't do "shame on you" comments on HN. We're trying to avoid the online callout/shaming culture here. Ditto for name-calling ("despicable"). I'm sure you can make your substantive points without any of that.

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Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#647

Post by dang »

narrator wrote: post #509
blast wrote: post #293

Chomsky wrote the definitive progressive answer to all this 50 years ago: https://libcom.org/files/chomsky%20-%20iq%20building%20block... Still timely and fresh, especially considering that he was critiquing Herrnstein 20 years before The Bell Curve. Because he's smart and unafraid, either of science or the truth, Chomsky never denies the possibility of a genetic component to IQ, even IQ/race. What he denies are the…

I suspect the leadership of the leftists in America know that there are race IQ differences, but they use this to set up a loop to gain more power. How do you increase your authority if you know that races are not all of equal ability? 1. Lie and publicly express that you think all races are of equal ability at all things. 2. Widely report that some races don't do as well as others on standardized tests, etc. 3. Blam…

Please don't take HN threads further into ideological flamewar. This sort of battle comment leads to predictable, nasty discussion, and what we want here is curious conversation.

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Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#648

Post by blast »

inglor_cz wrote: post #466
blast wrote: post #293

Chomsky wrote the definitive progressive answer to all this 50 years ago: https://libcom.org/files/chomsky%20-%20iq%20building%20block... Still timely and fresh, especially considering that he was critiquing Herrnstein 20 years before The Bell Curve. Because he's smart and unafraid, either of science or the truth, Chomsky never denies the possibility of a genetic component to IQ, even IQ/race. What he denies are the…

I don't think that a text judging biology, written by an (arguably smart) linguist dating 50 years back can be in any sense "definitive". Even in a moral and political one. Science evolves and real-world consequences follow. Someone playing with electricity in 1800 was doing scientifically insignificant research. 100 years later, electricity was a major industrial force. We are just entering the era when genetic mani…

> a text judging biology

That's exactly what Chomsky's article is not.

Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#649

Post by blast »

stringsy wrote: post #507
blast wrote: post #293

Chomsky wrote the definitive progressive answer to all this 50 years ago: https://libcom.org/files/chomsky%20-%20iq%20building%20block... Still timely and fresh, especially considering that he was critiquing Herrnstein 20 years before The Bell Curve. Because he's smart and unafraid, either of science or the truth, Chomsky never denies the possibility of a genetic component to IQ, even IQ/race. What he denies are the…

Thanks for that article - that was a brilliant read. But I don't think Chomsky would necessarily be against Harden's research/aims/motives? She seems quite aligned with Chomsky on that front actually. From the OP's article, she seems to be very aware that her research is reflective of current society and should be used to better/change it. Chomsky mentions that such research could be useful e.g. for improving educati…

I partly agree - the progressives I was referring to are the ones criticizing her.

(Welcome!)

Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#650

Post by [deleted] »

syops wrote: post #453
saalweachter wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...but as a former math educator my experience also indicates some people are genetically limited in mathematics. You sequenced the genomes of your students and correlated their performance against their genes?

Well, I’m certain cockroaches can’t learn calculus. Neither can apes or monkeys. Some humans can. Therefore I think that brain composition has something to do with learning calculus. There is variation in said brain composition amongst humans. It seems reasonable to think that the set of all people is not a subset of all things that can learn calculus. I haven’t performed any genetics tests but brain composition is p…

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