Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study • Hacker News Board

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#61

Post by benatkin » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

projectazorian wrote: post #52

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like therapy would be very useful then. If you’re having to self-medicate to maintain sanity, the substances are only a crutch. Speaking from personal experience.

Most heavy cannabis users I know are either currently in therapy or have spent a lot of time in therapy. This kind of careless posting is a great way to discourage people from seeking therapy, though!

Maybe bowsersghost isn't even a heavy user, and alternates between cannabis and other substances, like caffeine and capsaicin, which are two of my favorites.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#62

Post by halfmatthalfcat » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

benatkin wrote: post #55

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a stretch or generalization to mention mental health services to people who may be struggling with mental health issues.

The sweeping generalization I was referring to is "the substances are only a crutch". Your comment also suggests that you assume the author of the comment you replied to isn't pursuing therapy. People can do both at the same time. A lot of things can be a crutch, but cannabis provides meaningful relief for many.

I never argued it doesn't provide relief, what I'm arguing is that relief is somewhat of an illusion if you're suffering from persistent mental health issues, hence a crutch.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#63

Post by gonehome » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

zerobits wrote: post #18

It’s strange that all of the comments are looking for ways to dismiss this result (and this seems to happen generally with negative cannabis findings online). Is it not entirely possible a drug and method of consumption which stresses the cardiovascular system increases odds of an adverse cardiovascular event?

This is the default for any motivated reasoning where people are interested in a specific outcome (regardless of what's true): https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/too-good-to-check-a-pl...

It's hard work to fight against it, but the first step is recognizing it all over the place and in your own thinking.

Recognizing it and trying to correct for it is one of the core bits of the rationality community (imo).

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#64

Post by JasonFruit » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

oceanplexian wrote: post #59

JasonFruit wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like cannabis. Naturally they minimize any suggestion that it's not all good. I do the same with Lisp, smoked meats, and predestination. I see no mystery here.

It’s certainly not all good but I’d put it in a different league from alcohol, for example. Cannabis might cause elevated heart risk over a period of years. Alcohol can stop the heart of a healthy person in a single night of binge drinking.

Thank you for illustrating my point so nicely, in response to absolutely no assertions about cannabis.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#65

Post by halfmatthalfcat » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

projectazorian wrote: post #56

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a stretch or generalization to mention mental health services to people who may be struggling with mental health issues.

I'm quite sure that most HN posters are aware that mental health services are available. Did you provide any helpful tips for making use of such services, or just make low IQ lazy generalizations about substance users?

I would challenge your assumption as I have many friends in the HN world who are either skeptical, ambivalent or unaware of what mental health services are available or the benefits they can provide.

I'm not here to diagnose or mentor people with potential health issues but I thought it might be meaningful to post a small comment about how I thought the exact same way once and how it turned out I wasn't actually helping myself but sabotaging myself.

If the OP is curious enough about addressing their mental health issues, that's on them but I'd rather at least post something that might spur some thought instead of play into the "weed is inherently good and causes no issues" hivemind that is incredibly prevent on the internet (and on HN) today.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#66

Post by AnEro » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #26

bowsersghost wrote: post #5

I'll gladly take this risk considering cannabis preserves my sanity and keeps me away from the trough of sorrow.

Sounds like therapy would be very useful then. If you’re having to self-medicate to maintain sanity, the substances are only a crutch. Speaking from personal experience.

Not saying one shouldn't check in to make sure its a healthy habit but things you may want to consider before judging the habit is:

1) Cost: $120 of cannabis every month is cheaper than a therapist and more effective than 1 session

2) Some issues are perspective: where your perspective needs to be changed and it's making your life worse but not a DSM-5 diagnosis leaving a majority of therapists/psychologists without tools to treat

2.1) The amount of therapy needed to sus out that point of view thats hurting you is way more expensive.

3) Forced release valve: it forces you to not care and be apathetic at the end of the day. In my case, doing 10-12 hour days and feel yourself wanting to push for longer is also a very unhealthy feeling. I'm not in a position to slow down or the start-up fails/loses investors. I don't need it to relax at the end of the day, where I'm not smoking now as a test. Regardless, I do notice being burnt out faster now without it.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#67

Post by halfmatthalfcat » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

projectazorian wrote: post #52

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like therapy would be very useful then. If you’re having to self-medicate to maintain sanity, the substances are only a crutch. Speaking from personal experience.

Most heavy cannabis users I know are either currently in therapy or have spent a lot of time in therapy. This kind of careless posting is a great way to discourage people from seeking therapy, though!

Is therapy really that threatening? Sad is a society where we've stigmatized mental health services (which are proven to work) to such a degree and instead laud self-medication through substances, no matter the amount or frequency.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#68

Post by stronglikedan » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #26

bowsersghost wrote: post #5

I'll gladly take this risk considering cannabis preserves my sanity and keeps me away from the trough of sorrow.

Sounds like therapy would be very useful then. If you’re having to self-medicate to maintain sanity, the substances are only a crutch. Speaking from personal experience.

Speaking from personal experience, weed therapy is way more useful and beneficial than talk therapy or pharma therapy. Cheaper too.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#69

Post by borvsky » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 5:27 PM UTC

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #26

bowsersghost wrote: post #5

I'll gladly take this risk considering cannabis preserves my sanity and keeps me away from the trough of sorrow.

Sounds like therapy would be very useful then. If you’re having to self-medicate to maintain sanity, the substances are only a crutch. Speaking from personal experience.

Funny how no one ever says this about caffeine intake. Surely you also think people who drink coffee every day are relying on a crutch and are drug addicts that need therapy.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#70

Post by Tenoke » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

goldenkey wrote: post #50

zardo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I can't rule out that you actually had a cardiovascular problem, but of the people who get really high and think they have a medical problem, it's usually an anxiety attack.

Everyone likes to say that but as a cannabis user for 20+ years, most cannabis does raise HR when it "hits." It also can cause anxiety. Those two things combined can make HR even higher through a feedback loop. But it's disingenuous to think it doesn't raise HR in higher doses - that it's just an anxiety issue. Indica or sativa, they both cause a HR increase during intake. In my experience, it can taper off and one s…

>They have anxiety about their heart rate and possibly dying, and their friend OP keeps insisting that they just need to "calm down and be cool" because this is "all in your head." That's what ignorant friends are for :-)

999 times of a thousand (likely much more) this is the correct response. As you acknowledged there's a feedback loop and external reasons to justify it are likely to increase your HR even further. Given that it increases anxiety and paranoia the times when people have a real problem are going to be extrme rarer compared to the amount of times they are just causing themselves extra anxiety by freaking out.

Also 150 is still not really an issue. Anxiety can cause that and it can safely drop after calming down.