Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study • Hacker News Board

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#31

Post by datavirtue » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

eurasiantiger wrote: post #12

arpinum wrote: post #3

I appreciate the study calls out that most cannabis is smoked, and it may be general smoke inhalation driving these results rather than an inherent property of cannabis

It very likely is due to smoke inhalation or even mixing with tobacco; IIRC inhalation of any kind of micro- and nanoparticles is linked to higher risk of myocardial infarction.

I got a few new sativa vapes recently and was hitting them both pretty hard. I got smacked with a really disturbing heart issue that felt like it was being severely over worked. It was so bad I was on my front porch in n the dark resolved to dying. I didn't in now what was going to happen.

I'll admit that I'm a lightweight but I had to stop with the "turpine pens." Now I just smoke dry herb because I know how to regulate it and it never presented any issues like I experienced.

In the run up to that I did experience heart issues (racing/skipping?) but it was no where near that episode. I have noticed that sugar greatly exasperates the heart issues for me.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#32

Post by SubiculumCode » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

zerobits wrote: post #18

It’s strange that all of the comments are looking for ways to dismiss this result (and this seems to happen generally with negative cannabis findings online). Is it not entirely possible a drug and method of consumption which stresses the cardiovascular system increases odds of an adverse cardiovascular event?

Every HN science article is commenters dismissing the results of the study.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#33

Post by nerdbaggy » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

jkingsman wrote: post #30

everdrive wrote: post #21

I'm not a doctor, so please note that this is a genuine question, and not a rhetorical speculation: That said, smoking has always made my heart race. I'd be curious to know if this is common for people, and if it is common, then whether or not this could be a contributing factor. >edit, sorry, that should have said "I'm not a doctor."

THC is a vasodilator (it makes your blood vessels relax and become larger) which is thought to cause reflex tachycardia which means your heart has to beat faster in order to keep blood circulating because the "pipes" (blood vessels) have suddenly become larger. The vasodilation is also the cause of bloodshot eyes. There is also something to said for the anxiety which high THC cannabis can cause, as well as a sort of…

Sounds like why my heart beats faster when I drink

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#34

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #17

52-6F-62 wrote: post #7

This strikes me as a bit weak, and an answer looking for a question. > the current evidence is limited to case–control studies that are prone to bias and studies relying solely on administrative data.9–14 It is also limited in its definition of exposure, as these studies assess patients with heavy cannabis use (cannabis abuse or cannabis use disorder).9–14 Very few studies have assessed the prevalence of recent canna…

There is no control because there was no experiment. There is no independent variable that was controlled. This is epidemiology, not a trial. At best it can show a link, not causation.

[deleted]

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#35

Post by JasonFruit » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

zerobits wrote: post #18

It’s strange that all of the comments are looking for ways to dismiss this result (and this seems to happen generally with negative cannabis findings online). Is it not entirely possible a drug and method of consumption which stresses the cardiovascular system increases odds of an adverse cardiovascular event?

People like cannabis. Naturally they minimize any suggestion that it's not all good. I do the same with Lisp, smoked meats, and predestination. I see no mystery here.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#36

Post by S_A_P » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #21

I'm not a doctor, so please note that this is a genuine question, and not a rhetorical speculation: That said, smoking has always made my heart race. I'd be curious to know if this is common for people, and if it is common, then whether or not this could be a contributing factor. >edit, sorry, that should have said "I'm not a doctor."

I know Ive consumed too much when my heart races. At one point in my life I had enough of a tolerance that I could smoke all day every day and had no heart racing. I don't use cannabis anymore since I dont know anyone who can provide it and I live where the legal status is that its treated like a parking ticket for personal use. Ive visited Colorado and California and tried the legal options. Its generally way to strong for me. A half of a hit of current weed in the average potency available is enough to get me where I want to be- which is to reduce stress and have a slight head change.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#37

Post by zerobits » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

craftinator wrote: post #25

zerobits wrote: post #18

It’s strange that all of the comments are looking for ways to dismiss this result (and this seems to happen generally with negative cannabis findings online). Is it not entirely possible a drug and method of consumption which stresses the cardiovascular system increases odds of an adverse cardiovascular event?

I think that many of the commenters are pointing out that this study is poorly done in some key areas, which make any kind of conclusions based on it of little value.

We’re not going to get large scale randomized controlled trials for marijuana use any time soon.

We can definitely debate the methods.. but the findings from this growing body of evidence should probably be the ‘default’ stance, until we see more causal or controlled correlational evidence pointing the other way.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#38

Post by datavirtue » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 4:33 PM UTC

crazy_horse wrote: post #23

everdrive wrote: post #21

I'm not a doctor, so please note that this is a genuine question, and not a rhetorical speculation: That said, smoking has always made my heart race. I'd be curious to know if this is common for people, and if it is common, then whether or not this could be a contributing factor. >edit, sorry, that should have said "I'm not a doctor."

It can lead to anxiety and panic attacks due to the high levels of THC relative to the past.

Agreed. I'm always on the lookout for what are now low percentage strains. Perhaps I'm an odd ball lightweight but the current trend of ingesting as much THC as an possible in as little smoke as possible is not something I look forward to.

20+% come the fuck on...I'm not trying to make hash out of it.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#39

Post by newsclues » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 4:33 PM UTC

datavirtue wrote: post #31

eurasiantiger wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It very likely is due to smoke inhalation or even mixing with tobacco; IIRC inhalation of any kind of micro- and nanoparticles is linked to higher risk of myocardial infarction.

I got a few new sativa vapes recently and was hitting them both pretty hard. I got smacked with a really disturbing heart issue that felt like it was being severely over worked. It was so bad I was on my front porch in n the dark resolved to dying. I didn't in now what was going to happen. I'll admit that I'm a lightweight but I had to stop with the "turpine pens." Now I just smoke dry herb because I know how to regu…

Sativa can give people anxiety and it can feel like a heart issue.

Pens make it easier to get a bigger hit than a normal joint dose, so take smaller puffs.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#40

Post by hirundo » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

52-6F-62 wrote: post #28

hirundo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no control because there was no experiment. There is no independent variable that was controlled. This is epidemiology, not a trial. At best it can show a link, not causation.

There was an independent variable that was controlled as stated in the abstract and I pointed out already: they selected for people that had "abusive" relationships with cannabis according to whatever standard they chose. They firmly state the presence of a link between heart attacks and cannabis consumption without outlining whether the selected group had any other existing health or genetic issues. Maybe the data d…

For link, read correlation, not connection. They can only show evidence of correlation with this design, not connection.

I think you're misunderstanding the nature of an independent variable. To be independent it has to be controlled by the experimenter. If an abusive relationship with cannabis was an independent variable, subjects would have to be assigned an abusive relationship with cannabis, which is obviously not practical. There must be such an intervention. Since they are only selected from the existing population, with no independent intervention, this is a survey, not an experiment. It is the difference between observational and experimental science, and this study is the former.