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El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

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Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#31

Post by mytailorisrich »

vavooom wrote: post #7

Found this interesting deck[1] on El Salvador's digital climate while looking for smart phone adoption statistics. It would appear that there are more than enough smart devices to allow for such a transition successfully. Already on Twitter we're seeing crypto-punks there using Bitcoin to pay for their McDonalds, paying something like 0.000002 Bitcoin. I can't help but wonder what the outcome +1 year / + 5 years will…

I don't know the exact law in El Salvador, but in general "legal tender" does not imply an obligation to accept as payment in stores, it just means that most debts are discharged if the debtor offers (tenders) to settle the debt using a 'legal tender'.

So, for instance, if your plumber did some work for you and sends you an invoice afterwards then that debt is discharged if you offer to settle it using a 'legal tender'.

However, shopping in a store is usually not the same because payments do not settle an existing debt.

Again, I'm not sure exactly what El Salvador's new law entails.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#32

Post by ohhhhhh »

remir wrote: post #14

Why go with Bitcoin specifically? Why not use the Celo blockchain or Algorand instead and create their own stable coins on there? Both these networks are proof of work, transactions are very fast and cheap as well. Bitcoin is slow to validate transactions, is environmentally costly, and its value fluctuate, so I'm not sure what they were thinking. I wonder what the 30$ they receive from the gov is worth today after t…

The "problems" you've listed have been very clearly debated for the past 5 years. You can find answers. Youre just repeating talking points.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#34

Post by imtringued »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21
imtringued wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will just lead to a debt crisis down the road.

> will just lead to a debt crisis down the road Reduced El Salvadorian immigration will lead to a debt crisis?

USA exports $2.8 billion to El Salvador.

El Salvador exports $2 billion to USA.

Where do they get the money to do that? By working in the US. By sending remittances through Bitcoin or conventional means.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#35

Post by m00dy »

skizm wrote: post #29

How are they getting around the very long wait times and large fees for transaction confirmations? I'm guessing the "government digital wallet" is just an account on a government service that changes values in a (centralized) database while holding a bunch of btc under the hood? Or maybe there are private bank options that do the same?

They use lightning network.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#36

Post by drdeca »

hsavit1 wrote: post #16
vavooom wrote: post #7

Found this interesting deck[1] on El Salvador's digital climate while looking for smart phone adoption statistics. It would appear that there are more than enough smart devices to allow for such a transition successfully. Already on Twitter we're seeing crypto-punks there using Bitcoin to pay for their McDonalds, paying something like 0.000002 Bitcoin. I can't help but wonder what the outcome +1 year / + 5 years will…

what an awful waste of energy. Each bitcoin transaction uses the energy equivalent the entire lifespan of a tree. Effectively, each bitcoin transaction is cutting down of tree... in this case, for a hamburger

How do you reach that number? (CO2/block) / (transactions/block)?

I imagine these transactions are being done over the lightning network or something like that(I could be wrong on this though), in which case that calculation wouldn’t give the right answer.

In addition, I think I would evaluate the CO2 costs per transaction based on the contributions to the mining reward (because this is the part of transaction which has an influence on how much power people use to mine), which I think for bitcoin is still relatively small compared to the block reward part? Well, there’s also the influence on the price that making transactions has.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#37

Post by space_rock »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #31
vavooom wrote: post #7

Found this interesting deck[1] on El Salvador's digital climate while looking for smart phone adoption statistics. It would appear that there are more than enough smart devices to allow for such a transition successfully. Already on Twitter we're seeing crypto-punks there using Bitcoin to pay for their McDonalds, paying something like 0.000002 Bitcoin. I can't help but wonder what the outcome +1 year / + 5 years will…

I don't know the exact law in El Salvador, but in general "legal tender" does not imply an obligation to accept as payment in stores, it just means that most debts are discharged if the debtor offers (tenders) to settle the debt using a 'legal tender'. So, for instance, if your plumber did some work for you and sends you an invoice afterwards then that debt is discharged if you offer to settle it using a 'legal tende…

In El Salvador it means an obligation to accept it. Which is good for bitcoin adoption but does reduce people's freedom to refuse it

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#38

Post by doomroot »

skizm wrote: post #29

How are they getting around the very long wait times and large fees for transaction confirmations? I'm guessing the "government digital wallet" is just an account on a government service that changes values in a (centralized) database while holding a bunch of btc under the hood? Or maybe there are private bank options that do the same?

The mempool is relatively empty to fees are pretty minimal at the moment. But you are mostly right about holding balances on the app on a centralized database. However they are partnered with large lightning payment providers like Strike to make bitcoin transactions over the lightning network to non-government wallets.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#39

Post by la_fayette »

skizm wrote: post #29

How are they getting around the very long wait times and large fees for transaction confirmations? I'm guessing the "government digital wallet" is just an account on a government service that changes values in a (centralized) database while holding a bunch of btc under the hood? Or maybe there are private bank options that do the same?

They use layer 2 lightning network.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#40

Post by doomroot »

booleandilemma wrote: post #20

It’s amazing how countries are wholeheartedly adopting this thing as an official currency that we have no idea who invented and for what purpose. I mean sure, there’s a white paper that says why it was invented, but why should anyone believe it? If it does turn out to be malicious it’s going to make for one hell of a cautionary tale.

Malicious in what way? Do you mean the software? The software has been developed in the public for 10+ years.
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