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Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

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Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#491

Post by throwaway59553 »

Sholmesy wrote: post #307
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genes describe lot of things from obese tendency to height to IQ to your looks. If someone has an IQ of 70, there are very likely to live a difficult life. Yes IQ is not intelligence you will say but still there is a limit to everyday functioning if someone's IQ is low. Ask a conventional ugly person(specially female) about their life.

I agree with you, but an IQ of 70 is mentally disabled, so it's not really a good example of "bad" genetics, so much as it is an example of a disability.

However it is, 70 is the average IQ of some underdeveloped countries. And their average citizen is not mentally disabled per se. So are they underdeveloped, precisely because of that average? And speaking of distributions, are the people on the right hand side of the tail distribution, in a big enough number to lead their society, despite the low average?

Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#492

Post by syops »

bjourne wrote: post #336
syops wrote: post #2

From the article: Over the next year, a biosciences working group revised the program’s funding guidelines, stipulating in the final draft that it would not support any research into the first-order effects of genes on behavior or social outcomes. The fact that this area is controversial suggests to me that it is worth exploration. I’ve taught mathematics at community colleges for over 20 years and I’m absolutely con…

> I’ve taught mathematics at community colleges for over 20 years and I’m absolutely convinced that not all people can learn algebra or calculus. This is the "As a mom"-argument applied to iq. When it comes to child-rearing mothers will not infrequently claim to know what works best in general because they have had children of their own. I mean an equally valid interpretation of your anecdata is that not all people c…

Certainly not all people can learn how to teach mathematics. That is not at all disputable in my mind. I may be in the set of people who can’t learn to teach math. I’ve tried for over 20 years and appear to be just average at it. Maybe I’m below average.

My collection of anecdotes that not everyone can learn math works as an anecdote that not everyone can teach math.

Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#494

Post by syops »

raducu wrote: post #248
syops wrote: post #2

From the article: Over the next year, a biosciences working group revised the program’s funding guidelines, stipulating in the final draft that it would not support any research into the first-order effects of genes on behavior or social outcomes. The fact that this area is controversial suggests to me that it is worth exploration. I’ve taught mathematics at community colleges for over 20 years and I’m absolutely con…

The problem is who gets to decide. My english teacher/class master till 8th grade insisted I follow a profession that doesn't involve math -- she even recommend me to be a radio host for a children program -- she thought highly of me, but she thought math was not my thing. She was half right -- I have ADHD and even though my blood relatives are highly successful (doctors, lawyers, judges) NOBODY was good at math. Any…

How’s this for irony. My high school guidance counselor told me that’d never pass college and now I’m teaching at one!

I don’t get to decide who has the ability to learn algebra. All I get to do in this regard is determine who knows enough to pass.

Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#496

Post by Ma8ee »

Lord_Baltimore wrote: post #490
Ma8ee wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 250 years of economic history shows that unhindered capitalism is a disaster. The only reason capitalism appears so so successful is because it has been balanced with more progressive policies.

"Unhindered capitalism" "it has been balanced with more progressive policies." That doesn't sound like unhindered capitalism.

Times when capitalism has been unhindered have led to market crashes, galloping inequality and depressions. Times when capitalism has been balanced with progressive policies have led to stability and growth, not only for the already rich.

Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#497

Post by concordDance »

ashtonkem wrote: post #474

As an academic matter, maybe. As something that we should make decisions based on, either as individuals or as a society, hell no. The benefit to society seems quite scant, but the risk of having such system taken over by a eugenicist is quite high.

A potential benefit is figuring out how to make us smarter. For instance, let's say for the sake of argument that a group of people who all have gene seem to have lower IQ. We research the gene and discover it's a malformed enzyme that doesn't function as well. We give them all free supplements of the enzyme and as a result they get back to average IQ and everyone is better off.

Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#498

Post by mensetmanusman »

Progressives know genetics matter,

e.g. there are essentially zero people with downs in Denmark because laws stipulate that you must genetically test the unborn.

Those few that make it through this eugenics program are the result of false negatives.

Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#499

Post by 1980phipsi »

yadaeno wrote: post #461

IQ is misunderstood by most people and the common misconceptions are extremely harmful. In reality IQ matters much less than people think. The top 5 rated chess player of all time (Hikaru Nakamura) has a ~105 IQ. People with an average IQ are capable of performing at the 0.1% level with the proper structured training and time. In my experience IQ mostly impacts the rate at which you learn things. So it took you 2 yea…

IQ matters less than people think at some things, like chess. However, it does matter for other things, like mathematical analysis. Moreover, there is a correlation between IQ or proxies of IQ (like test scores) and income. While it isn't a super-strong relationship, there are few other variables that have as strong an impact.

Re: Can progressives be convinced that genetics matters?

#500

Post by concordDance »

hnbad wrote: post #361
automatic6131 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article, you'd see there are "progressives" in positions of power of what science is funded and what isn't, who take the position that genetics don't matter at all, and any research into them is done because it's motivated by rightist hatred of minorities.

I think dismissing that as "progressives being progressives" is dishonest. Most scientific research into eugenics, "racial differences" and such is motivated by reactionary value systems. Most of it can also easily be classified as pseudoscience and is published in fringe journals (e.g. see Emil Kirkegaard's "research" and his "journals"). Since this topic is so overrun with reactionaries trying to scientifically jus…

If you think the research done by the racists if unscientific wait til you see what's done by the antiracists:D
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