Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 352 posts

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#131

Post by IncRnd »

laurent123456 wrote: post #116
plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

> In one example, it's a cloud storage company, they say on their marketing page and their about page that they are based in Switzerland and under Swiss law, but if you look at the legal pages the company you sign up with are actually based in Bulgaria. Their servers are based in Texas, USA and Luxemburg, Europe and their development team in Bulgaria. Just out of curiosity, in this kind of situation what laws actuall…

If there are servers located on the US, they are absolutely covered by US law. In fact, all of the jurisdictions can apply in one way or another.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#132

Post by yaris »

jcq3 wrote: post #80

I think as an EU citizen you have more privacy on yandex.ru than PM. Russian authorities are unlikely to collaborate with French one for instance

If you can make sure you and your relatives and your friends never cross Russian (or for that matter Russia-friendly state) border and/or you never write anything remotely resembling criticism of Russian regime - then maybe yes.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#134

Post by CalChris »

Wasn't this a form of fraud? I don't know what the Swiss law is but in the United States, fraud is both a civil tort and criminal wrong. The elements of a fraud are:

  1) the making of a statement
  2) the falsity of the statement
  3) an intent to deceive
  4) reasonable reliance on the statement by the injured party
  5) injury sustained as the result of the reliance
ProtonMail knowingly told this activist 'we don't log your IP' in order to attract their business. ProtonMail did log the IP address. The activist believed this and got arrested.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#135

Post by plater »

laurent123456 wrote: post #116
plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

> In one example, it's a cloud storage company, they say on their marketing page and their about page that they are based in Switzerland and under Swiss law, but if you look at the legal pages the company you sign up with are actually based in Bulgaria. Their servers are based in Texas, USA and Luxemburg, Europe and their development team in Bulgaria. Just out of curiosity, in this kind of situation what laws actuall…

In the pcloud Terms & Conditions they say this:

"If a European Union user of the Site or Services is located outside of Switzerland, then, for the purposes of any claim or action relating to these Terms, the Privacy Policy, the Site, or any Services, the applicable jurisdiction will be the courts that are located in the territory of residence of such European User. "

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#136

Post by _wldu »

indigomm wrote: post #58
dsign wrote: post #22

The ProtonMail guys always said that unless they were 20 miles from the littoral, in the sea side, they had to abide by national laws. So it was bound to happen. What makes me sad is how flimsy their entire premise (not necessarily "promise") turned out to be: all it took was some minor rascal in France to hug the wrong tree (so to speak), and ProtonMail is in the open saying they can't even protect the IP address of…

The problem is that someone always controls that service. So they can always go after that person (irrespective of where the service is) and force them to modify it. I was thinking you could have some sort of satellite service with data stored on the satellite. Allow multiple authorised ground stations to connect and store/retrieve emails for users. But again, the person that controls the software and operation would…

One would need to operate the service as a Tor Location Hidden service and have no presence on the Clear Net. They would also need, very good operational security and careful configuration in order to stay hidden.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#137

Post by sbarre »

laurent123456 wrote: post #116
plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

> In one example, it's a cloud storage company, they say on their marketing page and their about page that they are based in Switzerland and under Swiss law, but if you look at the legal pages the company you sign up with are actually based in Bulgaria. Their servers are based in Texas, USA and Luxemburg, Europe and their development team in Bulgaria. Just out of curiosity, in this kind of situation what laws actuall…

I think the physical location(s) of your stored data is probably the weakest link in the (legal) chain, so to speak.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#138

Post by cpach »

ducktective wrote: post #114
cpach wrote: post #98

For secure communications it’s much better to use Signal than e-mail. (Preferably with disappearing messages.) I understand that people desire the UX of an e-mail client such as Thunderbird, Mail.app, Gmail or whatever. Nothing wrong with wanting that. But there is currently no good way to send e-mail securely.

What about Matrix?

Good question. IMO it depends on the threat model. If I was a political activist I would not rely on Matrix.

Some previous threads worth reading:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23108750

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24123997

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#139

Post by tyingq »

ArnoVW wrote: post #124
tyingq wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, this was about squatting in an unused commercial space that was once a restaurant. The spot had been damaged prior to the squatting and no renovations to fix it had started. So, yes, a crime, but comparing it to Hans Reiser seems a bit over the top.

The issue was assault during eviction, not just squating. And my point was not to equate assault and murder. Just to say that we were having the wrong discussion.

Ah, I wasn't aware of the assault. Is there a news story that talks about the eviction of the squatters?

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#140

Post by dtparr »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #46
rawbot wrote: post #28

So they "don't log your IP", until the first time someone challenged that statement. Talk is cheap.

ProtonMail has always said that they would comply with Swiss law. Your IP will not be logged unless you commit a crime in Switzerland and the swiss police hands in a request.

Note that the recent case involved a crime in France.

So really, it's more like 'unless you commit a crime in a country that cooperates with Switzerland and the Swiss legal system decides to hand in a request'

Post reply on HN