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ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

theregister.com

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Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#41

Post by kylehotchkiss »

plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

The company you’re mentioning in the end is Tresorit, right? If so, they still do get some kudos for running a pretty solid end to end encrypted storage service. Their whitepaper checked out to me and their heavy focus on business users instead of consumer seems to attract less of the advocate types of users that ended ProtonMail in this weeks situation to begin with

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#42

Post by iforgotpassword »

7demons wrote: post #11

I guess ProtonVPN also is not an exception to such "undeniable" requests. Bad day for company who bank on "no log" policy. Their marketing division will have a ton of work to fix reputation :)

Would you trust any VPN provider in that regard? I sure don't.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#43

Post by shafyy »

I see many comments here that seem to be uninformed. Please, make sure to ProtonMail's official statement first. It includes a lot of important background info: https://protonmail.com/blog/climate-activist-arrest/

For example, this paragraph is important:

> Unlike other providers, we do fight on behalf of our users. Few people know this (it’s in our transparency report), but we actually fought over 700 cases in 2020 alone. Whenever possible, we will fight requests, but it is not always possible.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#44

Post by ohgodplsno »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #38
ohgodplsno wrote: post #23

The homepage has always been misleading, since their TOS does mention that they can keep your IP address, for law-related purposes or spam prevention. Additionally, once they receive a request from Swiss police, they _have_ to comply and log those addresses. You can fight tooth and nail and pretend that your entire service is built to never see any IP, but in the end, you will still be made to log it. Welcome to real…

They can force you to implement functionality if it doesn't exist? Like logging?

Your service is connected to the internet, isn't it ? An IP is a fundamental component of it. It's impossible for you to say that you cannot have the IP. Even if it involves you going to your edge server and reading everything with Wireshark to find out the IP, you will still have to comply.

EDIT: To add to this, this is why ProtonMail recommends using a TOR node to protect your address.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#45

Post by vmception »

segfaultbuserr wrote: post #29
dsign wrote: post #22

The ProtonMail guys always said that unless they were 20 miles from the littoral, in the sea side, they had to abide by national laws. So it was bound to happen. What makes me sad is how flimsy their entire premise (not necessarily "promise") turned out to be: all it took was some minor rascal in France to hug the wrong tree (so to speak), and ProtonMail is in the open saying they can't even protect the IP address of…

> I think there is a market for datacenters in open seas. Sealand's HavenCo tried it back in the 2000s. As it turned out, it didn't work well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HavenCo See: Death of a data haven: cypherpunks, WikiLeaks, and the world’s smallest nation https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/03/sealand-and-have...

one company in the cloud sector failed 20 years ago, before people were even using the word cloud in this context

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#46

Post by ohgodplsno »

rawbot wrote: post #28

So they "don't log your IP", until the first time someone challenged that statement. Talk is cheap.

ProtonMail has always said that they would comply with Swiss law. Your IP will not be logged unless you commit a crime in Switzerland and the swiss police hands in a request.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#47

Post by batch12 »

anothernewdude wrote: post #13

For such a stupid thing too. I'm surprised Switzerland provided a warrant for a climate activist.

Are you sure he was arrested due to climate activism-- or is it possible that the irrelevant description has been added to manipulate people into a target reaction?

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#49

Post by dskloet »

raverbashing wrote: post #25

If people are unhappy about Protonmail I suggest they try find an email provider that is impervious to any judicial requests. Of any country. It is naive to imagine companies that have an address and take payments can ignore judicial decisions. Yes there's a point about fighting decisions, but as people say "we live in a society".

Some companies try harder to fight the decision than others and it makes a difference.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#50

Post by livinginfear »

The expectation that Proton would be able to disobey the legal requests of their local authorities with impunity is unrealistic. Protonmail makes certain claims about privacy, particularly about encryption. They don't make any claims that they have the intention, or ability for that matter, to defy local authorities at their peril. Like Grugq said in one of his presentations (paraphrased): "Don't expect your VPN company to do your jail time for you". I'm neither for nor against Protonmail. I don't think they've been dishonest. I think people have an unrealistic expectation of the service they offer. They offer additional privacy, not legal indemnity.
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