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ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

theregister.com

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Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#2
It has been admitted. So they DO log your IP address when you use their service. So their customers have been lied to and have their privacy at risk. They cannot be trusted.

So how long have ProtonMail kept this massive lie from its users then?

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#3
post #2

It has been admitted. So they DO log your IP address when you use their service. So their customers have been lied to and have their privacy at risk. They cannot be trusted. So how long have ProtonMail kept this massive lie from its users then?

Since day #1 would be a safe guess. I don't think the honor system is a good way to deal with companies so when a company writes something like that and I have no way of verifying it then I don't believe them. Worked pretty good so far.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#4
post #2

It has been admitted. So they DO log your IP address when you use their service. So their customers have been lied to and have their privacy at risk. They cannot be trusted. So how long have ProtonMail kept this massive lie from its users then?

It’s not a lie; it said “By default, we do not…”. So under any non-default situations they always could. I guess.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#7
post #2

It has been admitted. So they DO log your IP address when you use their service. So their customers have been lied to and have their privacy at risk. They cannot be trusted. So how long have ProtonMail kept this massive lie from its users then?

According to their statement:

> under Swiss law, Proton can be forced to collect information on accounts belonging to users under Swiss criminal investigation. This is obviously not done by default, but only if Proton gets a legal order for a specific account.

So I assume normally IP addresses aren't logged. But they can enable IP address logging for specific accounts when ordered to do so.

There is very little practical difference in the protection that gives users, but seemingly the privacy policy was technically correct.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#8
post #4
post #2

It has been admitted. So they DO log your IP address when you use their service. So their customers have been lied to and have their privacy at risk. They cannot be trusted. So how long have ProtonMail kept this massive lie from its users then?

It’s not a lie; it said “By default, we do not…”. So under any non-default situations they always could. I guess.

From the article:

>The firm's privacy policy, which was updated yesterday, now says: "If you are breaking Swiss law, ProtonMail can be legally compelled to log your IP address as part of a Swiss criminal investigation."

That makes it sound like they normally do not / did not log the IP, but then got orders from the police the log these particular IPs.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#9
This is not surprising to me. I will still continue to use ProtonMail. I never signed up because of the "no IP logging" thing. In fact, if I had seen it before I just plain wouldn't have believed it, and still used ProtonMail. But hindsight is 20/20

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#10
ProtonMail has been fraught with problems for a long time, and it's good that serious issues are being brought to light. Their marketing is very good and critics of them have struggled to communicate to users for a while.

The most important thing a serious privacy-minded service provider can do is be forthright and honest with users about the limitations of their privacy guarantees, particularly with respect to what hinges on math and what hinges on trust. ProtonMail has failed in this respect. It has always been the case, for example, that they could log these IPs, or that any incoming plaintext emails can be recorded before being encrypted at rest - and the fact that they're encrypted at rest is another thing we have to take on faith. Their proprietary components have always been a problem, and we also trust that they won't silently add key exfiltration to their webmail UI on the demands of a court. They don't explain any of this, they just pose themselves as experts on privacy and let vulnerable users stumble into law enforcement's hands because they care about their money more than their security.

Good privacy systems do not rely on trust or faith, they rely on math. Where some trust is required, in the case of a commercial service provider, it is their solemn duty to be honest with users and explain to them what promises they can and cannot make, and to make sure users understand which of these claims are backed up by math, which are backed up by law, and which are backed up with thoughts and prayers, so that these users can make informed decisions about how they use a service they're relying on for their personal liberty.

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