ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested
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Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested
#2So how long have ProtonMail kept this massive lie from its users then?
Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested
#3It has been admitted. So they DO log your IP address when you use their service. So their customers have been lied to and have their privacy at risk. They cannot be trusted. So how long have ProtonMail kept this massive lie from its users then?
Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested
#4It has been admitted. So they DO log your IP address when you use their service. So their customers have been lied to and have their privacy at risk. They cannot be trusted. So how long have ProtonMail kept this massive lie from its users then?
Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested
#5Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested
#6Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested
#7It has been admitted. So they DO log your IP address when you use their service. So their customers have been lied to and have their privacy at risk. They cannot be trusted. So how long have ProtonMail kept this massive lie from its users then?
> under Swiss law, Proton can be forced to collect information on accounts belonging to users under Swiss criminal investigation. This is obviously not done by default, but only if Proton gets a legal order for a specific account.
So I assume normally IP addresses aren't logged. But they can enable IP address logging for specific accounts when ordered to do so.
There is very little practical difference in the protection that gives users, but seemingly the privacy policy was technically correct.
Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested
#8It has been admitted. So they DO log your IP address when you use their service. So their customers have been lied to and have their privacy at risk. They cannot be trusted. So how long have ProtonMail kept this massive lie from its users then?
It’s not a lie; it said “By default, we do not…”. So under any non-default situations they always could. I guess.
>The firm's privacy policy, which was updated yesterday, now says: "If you are breaking Swiss law, ProtonMail can be legally compelled to log your IP address as part of a Swiss criminal investigation."
That makes it sound like they normally do not / did not log the IP, but then got orders from the police the log these particular IPs.
Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested
#9Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested
#10The most important thing a serious privacy-minded service provider can do is be forthright and honest with users about the limitations of their privacy guarantees, particularly with respect to what hinges on math and what hinges on trust. ProtonMail has failed in this respect. It has always been the case, for example, that they could log these IPs, or that any incoming plaintext emails can be recorded before being encrypted at rest - and the fact that they're encrypted at rest is another thing we have to take on faith. Their proprietary components have always been a problem, and we also trust that they won't silently add key exfiltration to their webmail UI on the demands of a court. They don't explain any of this, they just pose themselves as experts on privacy and let vulnerable users stumble into law enforcement's hands because they care about their money more than their security.
Good privacy systems do not rely on trust or faith, they rely on math. Where some trust is required, in the case of a commercial service provider, it is their solemn duty to be honest with users and explain to them what promises they can and cannot make, and to make sure users understand which of these claims are backed up by math, which are backed up by law, and which are backed up with thoughts and prayers, so that these users can make informed decisions about how they use a service they're relying on for their personal liberty.