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Google: Patently Absurd

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Re: Google: Patently Absurd

#31

Post by pkamb »

barredo wrote: post #4

What I think: It's ok for Apple, Microsoft et al to defend themselves if Android violates their own patents . It's not ok for Apple, Microsoft et al to defend themselves if Android violates patents they didn't develop . Also, remember that although Microsoft & Oracle claims that Android violated some of their software patents, Apple claims against Samsung go far beyond that, this analysis by Nilay Patel is pretty goo…

So you want to prevent some poor independent hacker from selling his patents to large companies?

Re: Google: Patently Absurd

#32

Post by sasidharm »

joebadmo wrote: post #25
sasidharm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gruber is no Google-lover, but in this case he is right on the money for calling out Google's hypocrisy. What if Google won the Nortel patents with their pi billion dollars bid?

Then they would have unhypocrytically continued to use them only defensively. Can you explain exactly how Google is being hypocritical in this case?

They are being hypocritical by saying that Apple and Msft bid many more times than what those patents are really worth, when Google itself bid upto 4 billion dollars. And what gaurantee does Google provide that they wouldn't sue competitors aggressively? Dont tell me its because their 'motto' is Dont be evil.

Re: Google: Patently Absurd

#33

Post by itg »

yanw wrote: post #18

It's hard to take Gruber seriously when everything he writes distorts reality and commonsense in the sake of representing them in ways that favor Apple Inc and its endeavors. His thoughts on WebM vs. Apple backed MPEG-LA are equally ridiculous.

"It's hard to take yanw seriously when everything he writes distorts reality and commonsense in the sake of representing them in ways that favor Google Inc and its endeavors."

It goes both ways. I don't agree with the way software patents currently work and think patent trolls such as Intellectual Ventures are the scum of the Earth, but Gruber has made some valid points here.

Re: Google: Patently Absurd

#34

Post by sasidharm »

Lewisham wrote: post #29
sasidharm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gruber is no Google-lover, but in this case he is right on the money for calling out Google's hypocrisy. What if Google won the Nortel patents with their pi billion dollars bid?

Do you know of any case of where Google has used its patents offensively? I don't.

That's because they don't have any patents of their own to sue with. Before they acquired IBM's patents, they had a total of less than 800 patents.

Re: Google: Patently Absurd

#35

Post by itg »

rumpelstiltskin wrote: post #22
doe88 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what about if the "merit" of the product is based on innovation developed by others?

Then it's more choices for the customer. Nothing's stopping the original 'innovator' from bring his product to market as well.

Then what incentive does the original company have in spending time & money into R&D to develop new products when some other company can just rip them off?

Re: Google: Patently Absurd

#36

Post by doe88 »

Lewisham wrote: post #29
sasidharm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gruber is no Google-lover, but in this case he is right on the money for calling out Google's hypocrisy. What if Google won the Nortel patents with their pi billion dollars bid?

Do you know of any case of where Google has used its patents offensively? I don't.

But what if Google had won the bid and was using these patents (they hadn't developed) defensively to defend against the fact they have violated patents developed by others companies, would it more fair? I don't think so.

Re: Google: Patently Absurd

#37

Post by dpcan »

This patent thing has to come to a head. Something has to happen.

It's not just big companies that are involved here.

Guys like me. A family man in the northwest just trying to make a living doing pretty obvious things with technology is going to get screwed by all of this eventually.

I develop on Android and it's a massive chunk of my income. If they go down, so do I.

All these games have to stop and something has to be decided. The courts need to look at this, the government needs to look at this, and things need to move swiftly.

I'm about ready to start painting houses. I've never heard one of them complain about getting sued for the way they move their arm up and down when they paint.

Re: Google: Patently Absurd

#38

Post by tomerico »

cheald wrote: post #21
pkamb wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No one other than Nathan Myrvold and his cronies sees the U.S. patent system as functioning properly, but Google’s hypocrisy here is absurd. Google isn’t arguing against a handful of never-should-have-been-issued software patents. They’re not arguing against patent trolls like Myrvold and his shell companies like Lodsys — companies that have no products of their own, no actual inventions, just patents for ideas for…

That one line doesn't really discount the tone of the whole rest of the post. Google supporters claim that Google only wants to use patents defensively. But what exactly does Google need to defend against, if not actual patents Android actually violates? - Also Gruber. The implication is that these are legitimate, unassailable patents that Google has ripped off in some nefarious scheme to steal Apple's good ol' homeg…

The implication is that these are legitimate, unassailable patents that Google has ripped off in some nefarious scheme to steal Apple's good ol' homegrown American hard work

I would argue that android "borrowed" a lot from Apple, and that the iPhone was truly innovative in many ways. The question whether they copied too much, or whether Apple's idea were innovative in the first place is what the Patent system is trying to answer.

There is little doubt the current patent system is a big mess. But I see opposing the idea software patents in the same light as opposing patents in general. It is likely that allowing companies to copy everything is good for consumers (at least in the short term), and increases competition.

The question is where you put the line, for example - if Android was an exact copy of iOS, would you still say that it should be permitted?

Re: Google: Patently Absurd

#39

Post by yanw »

itg wrote: post #33
yanw wrote: post #18

It's hard to take Gruber seriously when everything he writes distorts reality and commonsense in the sake of representing them in ways that favor Apple Inc and its endeavors. His thoughts on WebM vs. Apple backed MPEG-LA are equally ridiculous.

"It's hard to take yanw seriously when everything he writes distorts reality and commonsense in the sake of representing them in ways that favor Google Inc and its endeavors." It goes both ways. I don't agree with the way software patents currently work and think patent trolls such as Intellectual Ventures are the scum of the Earth, but Gruber has made some valid points here.

Perhaps, I've never instigated attacking posts on Google's competitors I merely react to what I think are unfair attacks.

And yeah, he probably made valid points regarding pixel width in OSX, he's out of his depth discussing patents though.

Re: Google: Patently Absurd

#40

Post by Lewisham »

doe88 wrote: post #36
Lewisham wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of any case of where Google has used its patents offensively? I don't.

But what if Google had won the bid and was using these patents (they hadn't developed) defensively to defend against the fact they have violated patents developed by others companies, would it more fair? I don't think so.

No, but you can play "what if" games to death. You can't be slighted as being hypocritical for something you haven't done yet, which is what Gruber is claiming.
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