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Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

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Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#101

Post by traverseda »

simnalamburt wrote: post #66

Hi, podman-apple-silicon developer here! I want to share some FAQs about this project. :) Q: Does this run amd64 docker images or aarch64 docker images? A: aarch64 images currently, but I'm going to patch podman to make it possible to run both amd64 image and aarch64 image. All I have to do for this is to make QEMU call and Linux image configurable, so it won't be very hard. However, if you are running amd64 images,…

> I'm going to patch podman to make it possible to run both amd64 image and aarch64 image

From what I understand, if you had working QEMU-static and binfmt, wouldn't cross-architecture containers just work? I've used that a lot in chroots, and I'm confused as to why that wouldn't just transparently work in this case.

Are you talking about just making that process easier? Does podman enforce extra checks that prevent you from using binfmt?

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#102

Post by nickjj »

stavros wrote: post #45
nsonha wrote: post #8

Idk why people keep pushing for this, on a personal dev machine, root is not a problem, and then there is QEMU

It certainly is a problem. We want to run local development stacks with Docker, but, since it runs as root, it leaves files into your home directory (database and other files mounted from the guest) that are owned by root, so you can never delete them. It's really bad UX.

If you create a user inside of your Dockerfile and switch to that your files will be owned by whoever is assigned to uid:gid 1000:1000 on your dev box if you use a volume mount. This solves the problem in nearly every case because your primary dev box user is almost always going to be 1000:1000. It'll work on native Linux, Windows (WSL) and macOS using Docker Desktop or not.

Here's a bunch of complete web app examples of it working: https://github.com/nickjj?tab=repositories&q=docker-*-exampl...

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#103

Post by qwerty456127 »

lucian1900 wrote: post #100
qwerty456127 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean Pro can not throttle even when you want it to? It sounds nice to have a full power at my disposal when I actually want it but most of the time I want a laptop to run near its minimum power to prevent heating, avoid noise and save battery. Even when I run a computation-heavy task I still want to be able to force it to run slowed-down and take its time. Is this not possible with Pro? Even with 3-rd party tools…

Based on what people that have both say, when the Air would throttle the Pro’s fans become slightly audible. I also prefer the design of the Air, so it was an easy choice for me.

I see. I personally am a PC user and I have a habit of controlling the throttle manually (it's not necessary but easy and handy). I have been doing this for almost 20 years, using handy 3-rd party panel applets and system's (both Linux and Windows) built-in tools. So I'm surprised to learn MacBooks still don't allow manual throttle control. I usually prefer to keep my thermal regime below of what the vendors pre-define.

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#104

Post by dotancohen »

hda111 wrote: post #80
DocTomoe wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moby has the power of using a well-established name ("I want to have Docker on my desktop, let's google that, oh, hi Docker Desktop!") that also appears in a lot of tutorials and training material, both aspects that developers tend not to spend time on. Given how often I still stumble over massively obsolete documentation and "helpful" articles from 15 to 20 years ago, I'd say they are safe.

They are as safe as MySQL is

Safe as Open Office is probably a better analogy. MySQL is still very widely deployed. But, yes, your point is very apt!

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#105

Post by lucian1900 »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #103
lucian1900 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what people that have both say, when the Air would throttle the Pro’s fans become slightly audible. I also prefer the design of the Air, so it was an easy choice for me.

I see. I personally am a PC user and I have a habit of controlling the throttle manually (it's not necessary but easy and handy). I have been doing this for almost 20 years, using handy 3-rd party panel applets and system's (both Linux and Windows) built-in tools. So I'm surprised to learn MacBooks still don't allow manual throttle control. I usually prefer to keep my thermal regime below of what the vendors pre-defi…

All intel MacBooks I’ve used allowed controlling the fans manually, at least.

It’s not relevant for the M1 Air since it has no fans, of course.

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#106

Post by dotancohen »

michaelcampbell wrote: post #93
awild wrote: post #89

I'm curious every post on podman had a very positive thread. We were kinda forced to use podman and while we enjoy rootless containers conceptually they have caused us a lot of issues. After every restart of a node when a user had pods running, said user will not be able to use podman. Often times, bugs can only be solved by completely resetting your user. It's also not as straightforward to configure as the document…

> bugs can only be solved by completely resetting your user. What does "resetting your user" mean?

Presumably there is a config file somewhere that is causing issues. Resetting the user might be a way of saying rm -rf /home/someuser. That said, I've never used podman and this is the first that I've heard of it.

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#107

Post by dotancohen »

lostlogin wrote: post #40
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So my somewhat shaky understanding is that Apple does have some form of jails in Darwin, because they use it on iOS (hence, "jailbreaking"), but for some reason doesn't ship it in desktop Darwin (aka macOS).

> Apple does have some form of jails in Darwin Thinking about the names Apple might call this tech is amusing, with their use of ‘me’ ‘I’ ‘Apple’ etc. I assume ‘Jail’ wouldn’t be in the name.

iSolation

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#108

Post by dotancohen »

stavros wrote: post #57
dolmen wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK the Docker engine (that allows to run containers) isn't available for Mac independently of Docker Desktop. At least binaries are not provided. https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/binaries/

Oh wow, really? I thought Docker Desktop was only a UI that helped you start/stop Docker, I didn't realize there's no OSS version at all . That's much worse than I thought, wow. I guess I'll have to switch to Podman too, even though I don't use Mac, just because we need a unified approach across OSes in our company and can't afford to have Mac-using developers be second-class citizens.

I love this comment. 15 years ago we were refusing Windows-only tools to protect the Linux users, today we are refusing Linux-only tools to protect the Mac users.

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#109

Post by qwerty456127 »

lucian1900 wrote: post #105
qwerty456127 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see. I personally am a PC user and I have a habit of controlling the throttle manually (it's not necessary but easy and handy). I have been doing this for almost 20 years, using handy 3-rd party panel applets and system's (both Linux and Windows) built-in tools. So I'm surprised to learn MacBooks still don't allow manual throttle control. I usually prefer to keep my thermal regime below of what the vendors pre-defi…

All intel MacBooks I’ve used allowed controlling the fans manually, at least. It’s not relevant for the M1 Air since it has no fans, of course.

I don't mean controlling the fans. I mean voluntarily throttling down the frequency of the CPU (and telling it it should not up-throttle even when the load goes high) so the computer actually stays cold even without the fans.

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#110

Post by lucian1900 »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #109
lucian1900 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All intel MacBooks I’ve used allowed controlling the fans manually, at least. It’s not relevant for the M1 Air since it has no fans, of course.

I don't mean controlling the fans. I mean voluntarily throttling down the frequency of the CPU (and telling it it should not up-throttle even when the load goes high) so the computer actually stays cold even without the fans.

Sure, you could do that too at least on Intel ones. Generally it makes sense to do it indirectly with the fans.

It’s really not needed on the M1. The only time my Air got warm was in a game.

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