Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Russia asks Google to clamp down on Navalny′s ‘Smart Voting′

m.dw.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: Russia asks Google to clamp down on Navalny′s ‘Smart Voting′

#21

Post by SturgeonsLaw »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #11
mynameisash wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing it's because some local governments are more deserving of being ignored than others.

Well, I can appreciate the honesty here. I wish more people would admit when they pick and choose their principles.

Maybe "picking and choosing principles" is not the ideal phrase, rather "picking and choosing targets", because not all actors are equally benevolent, and it can certainly be the case that some violate principles that others don't.

For example, if your principle is "elections should be democratic and free of interference" then it's perfectly consistent to want consequences for governments who interfere with elections, while not seeing any reason to target those who let them proceed freely.

Re: Russia asks Google to clamp down on Navalny′s ‘Smart Voting′

#22

Post by ineedasername »

hamburgerwah wrote: post #13

Lovely theatre to pretend the outcome isn't rigged already.

That depends on just how fine-grained their control on the election is. They might not lose, but they could still be embarrassed or greatly inconvenienced by the results. And you don't always need to chip away at the armor too much before a critical weakness is revealed. Once the party is no longer viewed as unassailable things could change more rapidly.

I'll admit that's a very optimistic view of things though. It has to be a little hard to stick your neck out in Russian politics when the result may be transdermal poison secretly smeared on the insides of your underwear. (And that is not an exaggeration or speculation of the risk)

Re: Russia asks Google to clamp down on Navalny′s ‘Smart Voting′

#23

Post by ineedasername »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #11
mynameisash wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing it's because some local governments are more deserving of being ignored than others.

Well, I can appreciate the honesty here. I wish more people would admit when they pick and choose their principles.

It's not picking and choosing your principals if the principal is "don't enable authoritarians" and so in one country you can follow all local laws and still live by that principal, but in another you need to ignore the local law to do so.

Not that I'm claiming Google itself has & will adhere to that principal. I'm speaking in general terms, that choosing which local laws to follow can be the only way to stick to your principals. Although that should also mean accepting the consequences. That is a fundamental tenant of civil disobedience: that a choice can be made to follow conscience, but also that the consequences must be accepted. In fact, that others observing the penalty may also have their conscience piqued by the injustice and also rise against it. (Generally associated with non-violent methods though, hence the "civil" inclusion with disobedience.)

Re: Russia asks Google to clamp down on Navalny′s ‘Smart Voting′

#24

Post by ineedasername »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #17
kadoban wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that all governments are equally legitimate, which is an awful assumption.

I'm not assuming anything, I'm just enjoying the frankness. "I support corporations against the governments I don't like" is a really refreshing piece of honesty, and not what most people would be brave enough to say. I'm trying to become less principled and more pragmatic myself when it comes to politics.

How is it less principled when just about any principle at all will require a variety of actions depending on circumstances? Most notably, that you go about things normally when the principle isn't being violated, (a country isn't authoritarian) and take appropriate action when it is (The country murders journalists and political opponents)

Re: Russia asks Google to clamp down on Navalny′s ‘Smart Voting′

#25

Post by kadoban »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #17
kadoban wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that all governments are equally legitimate, which is an awful assumption.

I'm not assuming anything, I'm just enjoying the frankness. "I support corporations against the governments I don't like" is a really refreshing piece of honesty, and not what most people would be brave enough to say. I'm trying to become less principled and more pragmatic myself when it comes to politics.

I don't see it as being less principled then, it's just a less simplistic principle.

Re: Russia asks Google to clamp down on Navalny′s ‘Smart Voting′

#27

Post by baybal2 »

ineedasername wrote: post #22
hamburgerwah wrote: post #13

Lovely theatre to pretend the outcome isn't rigged already.

That depends on just how fine-grained their control on the election is. They might not lose, but they could still be embarrassed or greatly inconvenienced by the results. And you don't always need to chip away at the armor too much before a critical weakness is revealed. Once the party is no longer viewed as unassailable things could change more rapidly. I'll admit that's a very optimistic view of things though. It h…

Vladivostok is one place in Russia where Putin genuinely struggles to get even single digits of approval ratings.

It's one of the only places in Russia a jury acquits a person 3 times, just for him to finally get jailed for the 4th.

2018 token provincial elections had Lutun's candidate lose despite ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE fraud. And yet they still pulled this at the end:

https://meduza.io/impro/LCjzlLaaoQX5pld_zlmxXqom_TRmlz9WhemQ...

Re: Russia asks Google to clamp down on Navalny′s ‘Smart Voting′

#28

Post by LAC-Tech »

kadoban wrote: post #25
LAC-Tech wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not assuming anything, I'm just enjoying the frankness. "I support corporations against the governments I don't like" is a really refreshing piece of honesty, and not what most people would be brave enough to say. I'm trying to become less principled and more pragmatic myself when it comes to politics.

I don't see it as being less principled then, it's just a less simplistic principle.

I think strong principles are by their definition simplistic. As soon as you start having multiple clauses and subclauses, they become weak - and sometimes transparent.

Re: Russia asks Google to clamp down on Navalny′s ‘Smart Voting′

#29

Post by smt88 »

bpodgursky wrote: post #6
glaucon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't hold your breath.

HN has a very split mind when it comes to deciding exactly when Google is entitled to ignore the local government.

I disagree. I think most people want Google to ignore local governments in the context of secret subpoenas (US), govt-mandated hosting of content (as pushed by GOP in the US), censoring content (China/India/elsewhere), etc.
Post reply on HN