Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address • Hacker News Board

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#321

Post by modzu » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:26 AM UTC

istingray wrote: post #77

Disclaimer: Paying Protonmail customer Their homepage says "By default, we do not keep any IP logs" In 2021, any soft language like this should be a red flag for anyone who is against surveillance. Maybe in 2018 it was good enough. But in 2021 it's not. Come on, Protonmail, you're supposed to be leading the way -- don't make me figure it out myself. Replace immediately with "By default we don't log IP, but may be req…

theyre quite transparent about their service, and far more transparent than any of their competitors. the same criticism can also be leveled against your comment. "but i used tor, the defualt mode for which has js enabled and somehow it leaked my ip!" if you dont know what youre doing, and want to evade state law enforcement, you better figure out what youre doing. thats not on proton.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#322

Post by gonzo41 » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:27 AM UTC

istingray wrote: post #246

YLYvYkHeB2NRNT wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone that uses ANY electronic device to plan and arrange clandestine opetations - IS AN IDIOT.

Do tell, how do you plan your clandestine operations?

Do as terrorists and generals do.just use one mail account, never send mail, use the draft feature, and start everything as a discussion about an elaborate real world spy/crime novel.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#323

Post by hk1337 » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:30 AM UTC

istingray wrote: post #77

Disclaimer: Paying Protonmail customer Their homepage says "By default, we do not keep any IP logs" In 2021, any soft language like this should be a red flag for anyone who is against surveillance. Maybe in 2018 it was good enough. But in 2021 it's not. Come on, Protonmail, you're supposed to be leading the way -- don't make me figure it out myself. Replace immediately with "By default we don't log IP, but may be req…

I didn't ever have proof, just a gut feeling, but I never really bought into Protonmail. I created an account but rarely used it and as far as I know has been deleted for a few years now.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#324

Post by arvinsim » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:35 AM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #298

ivan_gammel wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH in 2021 people engaging in potentially dangerous activities should be literate enough to understand, that no business will guarantee them full security and decline all requests from authorities to disclose their identity. The wording you suggest is equivalent of „do not dry your cat in microwave“ instruction - a legal protection from dumb customers, that does not contribute meaningfully to safety. For the non-Swi…

What kind of "climate activist" draws this much heat?

Probably one that threatens corporate interests.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#325

Post by pmtruth » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:38 AM UTC

Protonmail is a company that was started by people cashing in on the CERN and Switzerland brands, not a company started by privacy activists.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#326

Post by sodality2 » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:39 AM UTC

sellyme wrote: post #245

mikeyjk wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Gmail was much worse, scanning email contents etc.

The scanning of email contents that Gmail does is, from a privacy standpoint, indistinguishable from them simply sending you the email. Their server has to know the contents of that email either way.

>The scanning of email contents that Gmail does is, from a privacy standpoint, indistinguishable from them simply sending you the email

The privacy violation of creating a profile on me based on my mail to tailor ads is not the same thing as simply delivering mail.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#327

Post by sodality2 » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:41 AM UTC

istingray wrote: post #120

znpy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US companies can make canary statement... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary

Those canary things seem so 2018. In 2021 the most powerful canary statement should be "Don't trust us. Seriously, treat us as an adversary. We still want you to be our customer of course, but here's how we really recommend you use our service, Tor, semi-anonymous payments, etc. In God we trust, for everyone else use math."

That canary statement would kill their userbase. Seriously, who expects a company to admit the value they provide is not much? They expect the more savvy users (ie, those who need the privacy, typically) to understand basic OPSEC.

I admit that the marketing is bad, I do not agree with it, and I do not tolerate it in terms of my own OPSEC. But, there's just no way they would just admit they provide hardly any value besides, in a VPN's example, being a tube to another place, and just another tube with ends that can be stopped.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#328

Post by m-p-3 » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:42 AM UTC

shiado wrote: post #189

istingray wrote: post #77

Disclaimer: Paying Protonmail customer Their homepage says "By default, we do not keep any IP logs" In 2021, any soft language like this should be a red flag for anyone who is against surveillance. Maybe in 2018 it was good enough. But in 2021 it's not. Come on, Protonmail, you're supposed to be leading the way -- don't make me figure it out myself. Replace immediately with "By default we don't log IP, but may be req…

I once tried to create a Protonmail account over TOR and I believe they require a phone number from 'malicious' IPs so if you want anonymity Protonmail is not the service for you.

I created an account made explicitly to be used over Tor some time ago and I was never asked to provide any phone number, but maybe that changed at some point.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#329

Post by upofadown » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:43 AM UTC

This same sort of issue came up with Tutanota a while back. What do people expect when law enforcement shows up with a valid warrant? Is the service provider supposed to open fire?

Anonymity (which is different than privacy) is something that can only be achieved in very particular circumstances for a limited time. It always involves work on the part of the person involved, usually ongoing. It isn't something you can just go out and buy. Most people have no need of it most of the time.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#330

Post by sodality2 » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #192

znpy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US companies can make canary statement... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary

> In the US companies can make canary statement... What is far less clear is if you can trust the continuation of a canary statement to indicate the absence of the action it denies, since it is both legally disputed whether continuation of the statement could be mandated by government and because anyone who has an interest in the PR value of providing a canary statement also potentially has the same interest in conti…

>it is both legally disputed whether continuation of the statement could be mandated by government

Is compelled speech seriously in jeopardy? I saw the github issue for signal saying that some (EFF?) lawyers said that canaries are not that helpful, but that just implies that the government CAN compel speech. That would be bigger news than mentioned as an aside on a Github issue, I'd like to believe that would be news...