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Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

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Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#181

Post by ipaddr »

fsckboy wrote: post #91
polote wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said the end result is the same. Not that it is the same. In both case they give the IP when the police ask for it

In both cases they don't give the IP. in the case where they receive a court order, they first log your IP and then they give it. but you know this from their terms of service. if you stop using protonmail when you start your criminal career, they will not give your IP because they didn't save it. it's different in the end, not the same.

If you knew this, couldn't you login from someone's ip you want to frame the crime on?

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#182

Post by istingray »

civilized wrote: post #19
gregsadetsky wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CEO's position on Twitter is that "by default" (from the sentence you're quoting) means when there is no criminal investigation, but when there is a legal order in place, Protonmail will collect the IP... https://twitter.com/andyyen/status/1434600373059297284 "As described in the link above, under Swiss law, we can be forced to collect info on accounts belonging to users under criminal investigation. This is obvi…

"We won't keep logs on you, except if you're in trouble with The Authorities, then we'll definitely keep logs on you and rat you out" Weird definition of privacy we've got going these days

"We don't keep IP addresses. (we keep PI addresses which are tooooootally different and you didn't ask about those)"

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#183

Post by tephra »

istingray wrote: post #71
tephra wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So also a proton customer here. "By default we do not keep any IP logs" and this case does not seem like the default? Seems like they were required to by law to log and turn over this specific IP? (Of course I haven't seen the actual case but I would assume that meant a warrant.)

If this doesn't matter, what's important for you about being a Protonmail customer? (also a paying Protonmail customer)

I never said it didn't matter. I think the data retention laws and for what crimes the police are able to get certain warrants in the EU and Switzerland can be better.

But that is not a proton issue that is an issue with our current governments.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#184

Post by folmar »

mikl wrote: post #30

I guess there isn’t much Protonmail can do if the prosecutor shows up with an ~Interpol~ Europol warrant. I wonder what this “activist” did to earn himself Europol attention. At least before the world went insane, that would only happen for serious crimes.

Interpol warrants are widely used for fighting political opponents [https://stockholmcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Abuse-Of-...] [http://www.opinione.it/societa/2017/08/29/claudia-candelmo-e...]

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#185

Post by calvinmorrison »

cabalamat wrote: post #174
istingray wrote: post #77

Disclaimer: Paying Protonmail customer Their homepage says "By default, we do not keep any IP logs" In 2021, any soft language like this should be a red flag for anyone who is against surveillance. Maybe in 2018 it was good enough. But in 2021 it's not. Come on, Protonmail, you're supposed to be leading the way -- don't make me figure it out myself. Replace immediately with "By default we don't log IP, but may be req…

I wonder how many TOR nodes are run by the NSA?

Doesn't matter if you are going to an internal onion address

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#188

Post by pessimizer »

tephra wrote: post #79
polote wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do not kill people except the people we kill I see that you want to protect Protonmail, but if they want to stop being misleading they can just remove the IP log sentence

I mean they are misleading in so far you want them to... I'm a privacy activist and certainly think that a company should be able to not keep logs. If the law in the country they are in (or area, see for example the data retention directive in the EU) we should of course (and I am) work to change those laws. It should come as no surprise to anyone who is privacy minded and actively seek out privacy focused services t…

As a privacy activist, what's productive about arguing that protonmail shouldn't need to make a greater effort to pound into their customers' heads exactly what you just explained?

I get that you think people should already know this, but do you feel they should be punished for not already knowing this, and not reminded by a company that markets itself on protecting its users? Protonmail was forced to get an IP address, but they're not forced to keep the fact that they respond to warrants a big secret.

Not everybody who is an activist is a big techie, or even computer-literate.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#189

Post by shiado »

istingray wrote: post #77

Disclaimer: Paying Protonmail customer Their homepage says "By default, we do not keep any IP logs" In 2021, any soft language like this should be a red flag for anyone who is against surveillance. Maybe in 2018 it was good enough. But in 2021 it's not. Come on, Protonmail, you're supposed to be leading the way -- don't make me figure it out myself. Replace immediately with "By default we don't log IP, but may be req…

I once tried to create a Protonmail account over TOR and I believe they require a phone number from 'malicious' IPs so if you want anonymity Protonmail is not the service for you.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#190

Post by ipaddr »

IlliOnato wrote: post #108
lelandfe wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically correct but misleading. They tout that off-by-default statement on their homepage, underneath the header of "Anonymous Email," with the closing sentence of "Your privacy comes first." So why even market that? It provides no meaningful security.

Were _you_ mislead by this? Did you really expect a Switzerland-based company not to comply with law of the land? There is a difference between "available to police, not retroactively, and only with a valid warrant" and "available to any government agency constantly and in bulk, as well as to data-collecting commercial entities, Russian and Chinese hackers, and their dogs". Don't you agree?

Wouldn't they have to comply with a secret data collecting order?

We are trusting they wouldn't comply or no one would make that request?

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