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It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

thehill.com

231–240 of 427 posts

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#231
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice framing. Or it’s to get paid for bearing all of the risk of starting and running the business, and being financially on the hook for when it fails and gets to deal with years of being sued.

Exactly. Just like the financial crisis. All those big CEOs getting caught on the hook.

Definitely a fair comparison between a S&P100 bank CEO dining with the president regularly and a corner taqueria owner struggling to meet the payroll.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#232
post #12

Painfully obvious too. My little local Mexcian place will be closing down because of a lack of cooks. Talking to the owner, he was complaining about government benefits, and how they all want $20 an hour. I don't understand it, that you'd either a) be willing to drive your business into the ground serving a limited menu because you won't hire a couple cooks at $20 an hour, or b) have a business so close to the brink…

I've read that food margins have been extremely thin for many years - well before the pandemic. Maybe the owner is just tired of working his ass off for not much in return, and staffing problem is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Maybe the owner would be better off with unemployment!

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#233
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Maybe his supply is not unlimited, and maybe nobody would buy a taco for $50 and he knows it Not true. >While Chipotle raised wages from $13 to $15 an hour, or 15.4%, menu prices, on the other hand, were hiked between 3.5% and 4%. Price increases are generally quite small relative to the increase in workers' wages. >he knows it, and he made the calculation and decided there's no way to pay all his costs, charge the…

We're not talking about a multinational chain spanning continents with billions of dollars in revenue, tens of thosands of employees and a NYSE stock ticker - and not just any ticker but a part of S&P 500! Such a corporation has a lot of means to raise salaries a little without going under, they could borrow millions, they could issue stock, they could sell assets (which they have in millions), could restructure busi…

this is a ridiculously disingenuous argument. it doesn’t take a $50 taco to pay a living wage, no matter what the size of the business is.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will always be a demand for grooming by experienced third-party groomers. All we're seeing is a population struggling to accept their dollar is rather suddenly worth much less, there's a significant latency to such things sinking in. It can even be generational, some people never learn. Case in point: When I bought some land in 2018 I paid the asking price, which I thought was perfectly reasonable vs. FMV. When…

> There will always be a demand for grooming by experienced third-party groomers. Sure, just as is their demand for horses. > All we're seeing is a population struggling to accept their dollar is rather suddenly worth much less, there's a significant latency to such things sinking in. It can even be generational, some people never learn. https://twitter.com/JWMason1/status/1426245765437952010 it's far from universal…

> I don't own a car, I don't pay for gas. I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, even with haircuts. If my haircut price did go up, and the barber's wage did too. I do not resent it.

I've definitely noticed prices going up, but have been mostly dismissive of it as either being pathologically pandemic-caused and likely temporary (lumber prices for instance, I happened to be building a new roof throughout the pandemic) or opportunistic vendors not wanting to let a good crisis go to waste and gouging in the fog of the pandemic (a local organics market abruptly increased orange prices 300%/lb a few months ago, without even updating the displayed price).

And you can already find numerous news articles documenting cases of "shrinkflation" in staples like cereals [0], which is just a sneaky way of raising prices. I haven't personally noticed this since I don't consume such goods, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

My assumption is cost of services rendered by small businesses will be more variable and laggy in responding to the reality. Some will delay increasing prices, some will aggressively do so while the pandemic scapegoat is still fresh, some will just close their doors. When it comes to cases delaying price increases, they'll no doubt be exploring all avenues like cutting staff/hours/wages to eat the difference. The problem is, those cases dragging their feet on raising prices, their mentality likely reflects the mentality of their clientele/community. It's a collective of people operating in denial that shit's getting expensive, and yes, your $50 gets you a haircut, go ask for a raise, USD is inflationary.

[0] https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/07/06/1012409112/bew...

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#235
post #66
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The barber shop I went to for years used to charge $35 for a haircut pre-pandemic, which with a ~$10 tip ($45) already felt real high. Now a haircut is $50 and I no longer go, opting instead to cut my own hair w help from my girlfriend. Maybe people don’t want $50 haircuts.

In that case you'd be justified in not paying the tip, surely? The effective price beforehand was $45, since you weren't really tippin, just subsidising the employer. They just bumped the price by 5 bucks and dispensed with the pricing trickery by paying proper wages.

So you're saying the proper response for the employer acting to raise pay to the line workers by raising prices is for you, as a customer, to act to lower pay to the line workers by stopping the tips? That'd show the greedy owner! Surely in some world that must make sense... but it's not our world.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand it, that you'd either > > a) be willing to drive your business into the ground serving a limited menu because you won't hire a couple cooks at $20 an hour, or > > b) have a business so close to the brink of shutting down that an additional $20-50 an hour will shutter you. Restaurants run on notoriously thin margins ( https://upserve.com/restaurant-insider/profit-margins/ ). There's a reason resta…

Maybe one of those miscalculations is not paying workers enough to keep them hired.

One of the recommendations for lowering costs is to reduce turnover. Which you can do by paying more, assuming the higher pay costs less than training new staff.

My point is only that restaurants are famous for having tight budgets. It’s no surprise when restaurant owners say they can’t absorb even small cost increases.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#237
As someone who makes their living owning a food business, nearly all the food industry-related comments here are off the mark. Rather than rebut any of them, I'd say the way to think about that particular set of industry challenges is to think of them like a chronic condition.

It's never a "just do this" answer. Never. You don't tell your friend with depression to plow through this down phase he's in. And the other friend with Crohn's disease and a colostomy bag doesn't benefit from someone suggesting she try a gluten-free diet.

It's the same in the food industry. The issues at hand are complex, the ripple effects of any change are significant and multifaceted, and the foremost issue today may be superseded tomorrow while nonetheless remaining an area for concern and attention.

The better move from the outside is to provide the support that's needed today by the business (or the friend) and within your means. Can't afford to go out for food regularly? I get it, just like your job may not allow you to be available as often as your friend with Crohn's disease needs a ride home from the hospital after some procedure.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#238
post #237

As someone who makes their living owning a food business, nearly all the food industry-related comments here are off the mark. Rather than rebut any of them, I'd say the way to think about that particular set of industry challenges is to think of them like a chronic condition. It's never a "just do this" answer. Never. You don't tell your friend with depression to plow through this down phase he's in. And the other f…

But also, unlike having a friend with a chronic disease, it is no one's obligation to support particular local businesses with their time and money. Yes, supporting local businesses in general is good, no question—but I feel like framing it as "just give the support you can to your local restaurants" implies a greater onus than can realistically be placed on regular people.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#239
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s easy to understand. If your customers won’t buy Mexican food at a high enough price to pay $20/hour, it’s better to close than to stay open and lose money. I think the root problem is that most restaurant dining experiences are not worth the $30+ per person for enough people compared to cooking and eating at home. I would like to see more places where you order at a register and bus your own food with minimal…

How is this different than 'nice' fast food restaurants? Chainwise, Chipotle or similar?

Chipotle is pretty much the only "eating out" experience I've engaged in since the pandemic started.

Somehow they managed to not raise their prices, or raise it insignificantly enough to where I didn't notice it (50 cents across the board maybe?).

For sit-down places, I frequently see price hikes of 20-30% since early 2020 and mandatory gratuity for parties of 4 now, which is frankly ridiculous, because the food quality stayed the same or has gotten worse. Not to mention that the whole experience of sharing an indoor space with an unknown demographic is dubious at best.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#240
This is really a test of who will win out first: workers have to pay bills, businesses have to have workers to stay in business. Eventually the rent comes due for both, and that will force the option. I predict by Christmas people will be back to work, raises in pay or not.
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