Live data from Hacker News

It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

thehill.com

51–60 of 427 posts

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#51

Or maybe it’s a government-benefits surplus. That’s the only thing that’s actually changed.

The economy has undergone a massive and fundamental shift because of the pandemic. It is disingenuous, at best, to say the increased unemployment insurance is “the only thing that’s actually changed.” Everything has changed. The demand for in-person services. Transportation and how (and even how often) we travel. Childcare. Education. Entertainment. Everything.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#52
post #12

Painfully obvious too. My little local Mexcian place will be closing down because of a lack of cooks. Talking to the owner, he was complaining about government benefits, and how they all want $20 an hour. I don't understand it, that you'd either a) be willing to drive your business into the ground serving a limited menu because you won't hire a couple cooks at $20 an hour, or b) have a business so close to the brink…

You're presenting it as he has an infinite money supply and just of pure stupidity and greed doesn't want to pay $20 or $50 per hour. Maybe his supply is not unlimited, and maybe nobody would buy a taco for $50 and he knows it, and he made the calculation and decided there's no way to pay all his costs, charge the price that people would be willing to pay, and make a profit.

Now, if you know how to do it, there's a big opportunity for you just opened up. You could buy the place (probably for cheap), hire the cooks for $20 or for $50 (they would be ecstatic to work for you, I am sure, you're not that previous greedy owner and would pay them lavishly) and become the model of a businessman. People love good Mexican food. I know I do. I know many people that do. You can't lose, really - it's a mystery why there aren't more Mexican food billionaires... It's so simple, after all.

Somehow most of such attempts I've heard of never turned a profit and shut down soon. Maybe those restaurant owners know something about their business that is not obvious to a random person only reading newspaper headlines...

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#53
post #22
post #12

Painfully obvious too. My little local Mexcian place will be closing down because of a lack of cooks. Talking to the owner, he was complaining about government benefits, and how they all want $20 an hour. I don't understand it, that you'd either a) be willing to drive your business into the ground serving a limited menu because you won't hire a couple cooks at $20 an hour, or b) have a business so close to the brink…

It’s easy to understand. If your customers won’t buy Mexican food at a high enough price to pay $20/hour, it’s better to close than to stay open and lose money. Labor is the highest cost for a restaurant (higher than rent) so bumping wages from $15 to $20 may not be possible if you can’t also raise prices by 30%. This may be hard to understand for us rich programmers. But it’s quite simple for companies that have rea…

"Rich" programmers.

You know society is doomed when a wage supporting a middle class lifestyle is deemed "rich".

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#54
post #33

It's amazing how business seems to understand the free market when it's selling to customers, but can't seem figure out the free market when it comes to hiring labor.

The issue is the temporary competition from government covid benefits. Businesses understand perfectly well, but it’s kind of pointless to compete with higher benefits for not working. In my state, benefits were $16/hour. So businesses have a hard time competing with that because jobs can’t compete much with unemployment benefits. It would be interesting to see what the trade off is for how much money it would take.…

Studies of states that extended the unemployment benefits vs ones that didn’t seem to show that the benefits accounted for a fairly small portion of the difference in employment.

https://www.wxxinews.org/post/what-unemployment-insurance-te...

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#55
post #22
post #12

Painfully obvious too. My little local Mexcian place will be closing down because of a lack of cooks. Talking to the owner, he was complaining about government benefits, and how they all want $20 an hour. I don't understand it, that you'd either a) be willing to drive your business into the ground serving a limited menu because you won't hire a couple cooks at $20 an hour, or b) have a business so close to the brink…

It’s easy to understand. If your customers won’t buy Mexican food at a high enough price to pay $20/hour, it’s better to close than to stay open and lose money. Labor is the highest cost for a restaurant (higher than rent) so bumping wages from $15 to $20 may not be possible if you can’t also raise prices by 30%. This may be hard to understand for us rich programmers. But it’s quite simple for companies that have rea…

McDonald's pays about 20% in labor costs, and from what I can see other restaurants also average 20-30%. Where are you getting that labor is the highest cost?

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#56
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with a bundle of Great Clips a friend manages for a franchisee. Can’t find staff, doesn’t believe staff are worth what the current effective minimum wage is. “Have you tried offering more?” “That’s too much for cosmetology work.” Getting slapped by the invisible hand of the market.

The barber shop I went to for years used to charge $35 for a haircut pre-pandemic, which with a ~$10 tip ($45) already felt real high. Now a haircut is $50 and I no longer go, opting instead to cut my own hair w help from my girlfriend. Maybe people don’t want $50 haircuts.

The salons in question are still charging $18 for a haircut.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#57
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they could just have raised prices.

All of the local restaurants have raised prices. I've overheard a few restaurant owners talking and it seems customers don't like even small price increases. They also indicate the price increases are necessary for supply costs even as they raise wages and can't fill positions. A lot of restaurants are just cutting menus/services to be able to stay on top of demand. This strikes me as hugely economically inefficient,…

To me, if 50% of restaurants close tomorrow, fine.

There are people who dine out 3, 4, 5 times a week, who don't really know how to cook anything beyond microwaved meals... that's completely insane!

And I think that's kind of what all of this hysteria is about. Because yeah, if the price of a burrito went up by $2-3, those people would have to learn how to cook some basic meals for themselves.

Not so long ago, dining out -- having another human being cook & bring you your food -- was a luxury, reserved for special events. This is something completely different.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#58

This is so visible even in the tech industry. If your company has trouble hiring, it's a signal that something is wrong with the hiring process and the company needs to change it. Maybe stop leetcode nonsense, maybe offer more equity. Your managers should spend time to figure out the root cause and fix the problem. If your management cannot figure it out, fire them first. If your company has trouble retaining enginee…

It’s been fun to see this play out at my current (self-destructing) company. A large percentage of senior engineers have left; rather than make changes, management is going about business as usual.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#59
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with a bundle of Great Clips a friend manages for a franchisee. Can’t find staff, doesn’t believe staff are worth what the current effective minimum wage is. “Have you tried offering more?” “That’s too much for cosmetology work.” Getting slapped by the invisible hand of the market.

The barber shop I went to for years used to charge $35 for a haircut pre-pandemic, which with a ~$10 tip ($45) already felt real high. Now a haircut is $50 and I no longer go, opting instead to cut my own hair w help from my girlfriend. Maybe people don’t want $50 haircuts.

Maybe people never needed to pay for haircuts in the first place

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#60
post #12

Painfully obvious too. My little local Mexcian place will be closing down because of a lack of cooks. Talking to the owner, he was complaining about government benefits, and how they all want $20 an hour. I don't understand it, that you'd either a) be willing to drive your business into the ground serving a limited menu because you won't hire a couple cooks at $20 an hour, or b) have a business so close to the brink…

Same with a bundle of Great Clips a friend manages for a franchisee. Can’t find staff, doesn’t believe staff are worth what the current effective minimum wage is. “Have you tried offering more?” “That’s too much for cosmetology work.” Getting slapped by the invisible hand of the market.

> “That’s too much for cosmetology work.”

So it's not even an economic argument, "If I pay that I'll go out of business"? It's just a moral one, "They don't deserve that amount of money"?

I can't say I'm surprised, TBH.

Post reply on HN