It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage • Hacker News Board

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#31

Post by pnutjam » Sun, Sep 05, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

atrus wrote: post #12

Painfully obvious too. My little local Mexcian place will be closing down because of a lack of cooks. Talking to the owner, he was complaining about government benefits, and how they all want $20 an hour. I don't understand it, that you'd either a) be willing to drive your business into the ground serving a limited menu because you won't hire a couple cooks at $20 an hour, or b) have a business so close to the brink…

I heard a hotel guy being interviewed on NPR afew weeks ago and he basically said raising wages was not an option because other places will just raise their wages too and it won't let them stand out. So he'd rather encourage tipping from customers.

Almost bent my steering wheel in rage....

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#32

Post by chaircher » Sun, Sep 05, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #11

I want a news organisation to look at 10 jobs that cannot be filled and compare them to the broader market. As most of the unfillable jobs in my area seem to be manufacturing/outdoor labour that pay as much as retail (which seems a lot nicer) or jobs seeking experienced people at entry level pay.

Here in the UK we had supervisor/management positions trying it on for 0 hour contracts and minimum wage for months, although they seem to have gotten the message now they're having to literally shut their doors because they can't get staff. Worst one I saw was night manager of a massive central hotel for minimum wage. I wonder if it's that people have wisened up to the "take on extra responsibilities for no pay because it will look good on your CV" bullshit.

Bearing in mind it's only really the last generation or so in the UK who have gotten used to not expecting things like double pay for a night shift, workers expecting to be paid about £10p/h for a bar shift finishing at 4am still isn't a bad deal at all

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#33

Post by prepend » Sun, Sep 05, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #2

It's amazing how business seems to understand the free market when it's selling to customers, but can't seem figure out the free market when it comes to hiring labor.

The issue is the temporary competition from government covid benefits. Businesses understand perfectly well, but it’s kind of pointless to compete with higher benefits for not working. In my state, benefits were $16/hour. So businesses have a hard time competing with that because jobs can’t compete much with unemployment benefits.

It would be interesting to see what the trade off is for how much money it would take. But rationally, I think, I’d rather get $16/hour and study and take online courses for a year than make $25 and work.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#34

Post by mananaysiempre » Sun, Sep 05, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

atrus wrote: post #12

Painfully obvious too. My little local Mexcian place will be closing down because of a lack of cooks. Talking to the owner, he was complaining about government benefits, and how they all want $20 an hour. I don't understand it, that you'd either a) be willing to drive your business into the ground serving a limited menu because you won't hire a couple cooks at $20 an hour, or b) have a business so close to the brink…

Prices can be very, very sticky? In my city it appears (to my uninvolved eye) that several levels of floor space sublessors need to run out of lessees by raising prices in order to pay (possibly their debt to) the higher levels, with a couple months’ latency for each, until retail can reasonably exist again.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#35

Post by someelephant » Sun, Sep 05, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

nine_zeros wrote: post #8

This is so visible even in the tech industry. If your company has trouble hiring, it's a signal that something is wrong with the hiring process and the company needs to change it. Maybe stop leetcode nonsense, maybe offer more equity. Your managers should spend time to figure out the root cause and fix the problem. If your management cannot figure it out, fire them first. If your company has trouble retaining enginee…

If there are a lot of interviewers like that FB guy on teamblind who just searches for the hardest question and fails everyone for the tiniest error because he's fed up with the interview process, then yeah, there are problems.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#36

Post by pnutjam » Sun, Sep 05, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #22

atrus wrote: post #12

Painfully obvious too. My little local Mexcian place will be closing down because of a lack of cooks. Talking to the owner, he was complaining about government benefits, and how they all want $20 an hour. I don't understand it, that you'd either a) be willing to drive your business into the ground serving a limited menu because you won't hire a couple cooks at $20 an hour, or b) have a business so close to the brink…

It’s easy to understand. If your customers won’t buy Mexican food at a high enough price to pay $20/hour, it’s better to close than to stay open and lose money. Labor is the highest cost for a restaurant (higher than rent) so bumping wages from $15 to $20 may not be possible if you can’t also raise prices by 30%. This may be hard to understand for us rich programmers. But it’s quite simple for companies that have rea…

Honestly, it's better for these shoddy underpaid and low value places to close. They just undercut the good guys and slowly burn money.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#37

Post by mananaysiempre » Sun, Sep 05, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

varjag wrote: post #30

prepend wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s easy to understand. If your customers won’t buy Mexican food at a high enough price to pay $20/hour, it’s better to close than to stay open and lose money. Labor is the highest cost for a restaurant (higher than rent) so bumping wages from $15 to $20 may not be possible if you can’t also raise prices by 30%. This may be hard to understand for us rich programmers. But it’s quite simple for companies that have rea…

The competition recruits from the same labor pool, I don't think we misunderstand anything.

The demand may just go elsewhere, like “screw it, I’ll just go to the supermarket”—not sure how plausible that is in a US context specifically, but surely there’s a possible world where the majority of people just stop eating Mexican or even most street food.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#38

Post by holler » Sun, Sep 05, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

atrus wrote: post #12

Painfully obvious too. My little local Mexcian place will be closing down because of a lack of cooks. Talking to the owner, he was complaining about government benefits, and how they all want $20 an hour. I don't understand it, that you'd either a) be willing to drive your business into the ground serving a limited menu because you won't hire a couple cooks at $20 an hour, or b) have a business so close to the brink…

Same with a bundle of Great Clips a friend manages for a franchisee. Can’t find staff, doesn’t believe staff are worth what the current effective minimum wage is. “Have you tried offering more?” “That’s too much for cosmetology work.” Getting slapped by the invisible hand of the market.

The barber shop I went to for years used to charge $35 for a haircut pre-pandemic, which with a ~$10 tip ($45) already felt real high.

Now a haircut is $50 and I no longer go, opting instead to cut my own hair w help from my girlfriend.

Maybe people don’t want $50 haircuts.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#39

Post by tayo42 » Sun, Sep 05, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #22

atrus wrote: post #12

Painfully obvious too. My little local Mexcian place will be closing down because of a lack of cooks. Talking to the owner, he was complaining about government benefits, and how they all want $20 an hour. I don't understand it, that you'd either a) be willing to drive your business into the ground serving a limited menu because you won't hire a couple cooks at $20 an hour, or b) have a business so close to the brink…

It’s easy to understand. If your customers won’t buy Mexican food at a high enough price to pay $20/hour, it’s better to close than to stay open and lose money. Labor is the highest cost for a restaurant (higher than rent) so bumping wages from $15 to $20 may not be possible if you can’t also raise prices by 30%. This may be hard to understand for us rich programmers. But it’s quite simple for companies that have rea…

You dont need to increase prices by 30% to raise the hourly rate from $15 to $20. Pay is like a fixed cost. If your cook makes 100 items an hour and you profit 1$ off each item. Your profit for the hour only goes down by $5 not by 33 cents per item

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#40

Post by rebuilder » Sun, Sep 05, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #9

n8cpdx wrote: post #4

It's surprising businesses haven't turned to automation. At the very least, most of a restaurant's and a coffee shop's labor can be replaced with automated ordering, having the customer collect food themselves when it's ready, and using robots to prepare more of the food. they can do lattes with art all by themselves now. A lot of these businesses just can't survive if they meet the wage demands of people who have be…

Might this be happening already? It seems like ordering at the counter is becoming more popular compared to full service, even for somewhat upscale food. Also, food trucks are popular.

As a parent of small kids, I really appreciate being able to pay while ordering as opposed to waiting for the waiter ( hmmm… ) while the children get antsy.

Of course, Now that I think about it, I’ve never asked if I could just pay after ordering. The force of habit, huh!