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Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

nltimes.nl

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Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#331

Post by joelbluminator »

Freak_NL wrote: post #190

This is desperately needed. And not just in the major cities; this is happening in every Dutch town. Amsterdam may have prices beyond absurd, but the whole nation is burdened by this problem. In the street I live in the capital of the northern province of Fryslân (Frisia) most homes are owned by their inhabitants, but in the past few years we've seen several houses being bought by small-time investors (who already ow…

When I was living in NL I knew a guy who had a mortgage for a house in Australia, a mortgage on a house in Groningen and then he was looking to get another mortgage for a house in Den Haag. Banks don't seem to cooperate internationally or even nationally; he never told the banks he has mortgages already.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#332

Post by ericmay »

bushbaba wrote: post #317
heresie-dabord wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wages have been stagnant for decades while the cost of living has increased... and now housing has become a privilege . Yes, there are "rich foreigners" and some corporations are strategically acquiring the places and spaces where high rent can be extracted. But what has driven housing cost in the market of individual homes is simply that some citizens can afford to borrow at low rates, and other citizens are seizing…

The governments are to blame. If conventional mortgages were capped to 1 per person. And a minimum of 80% ltv was required. Then houses would be cheaper. Instead the government is letting people put low money down, low interest rates, and buy up many houses at once. That of course inflated housing costs.

I like this idea. I’d add in though you gotta do something about corporate ownership though.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#333

Post by ClumsyPilot »

refurb wrote: post #208
dogma1138 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The median price for a property in London is £600K, the average is over £1M today. That means that normal people cannot afford to buy anything in London even with HTB which is a terrible policy the people who can afford to use it are already in the top percentiles. A £600K property as a first time buyer requires you to have about £100K to get on a property ladder. 10% deposit for a 90% LTV mortgage is £60K, stamp dut…

Why is it reasonable to assume that people earning an average wage should be able to afford a home in the most desirable city in the UK, and one of the most desirable cities in Europe if not the world? I mean, nobody complains in the US if the average family can’t buy a home in Manhattan. That’s just unreasonable.

"Why is it reasonable to assume that people earning an average wage should be able to afford a home"

Whats's next, "why should an average person be able to afford an education or healthcare"?

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#334

Post by fxtentacle »

nkrisc wrote: post #219
makomk wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the British press and all the wealthy people with second homes still have Brexit as a scapegoat for why cafes and shops in tourist destinations can't find staff. Never mind the fact that AirBNB and second homes have pushed up house prices and rents to the point that it's impossible to live there on the kind of pay those jobs have, according to the media it's all the fault of Brexit driving away the for…

>it's all the fault of Brexit driving away the foreign workers who had to do the jobs Forgive me since I’m American, but wasn’t getting rid of foreigners taking jobs one of the selling points of Brexit?

It was, but now that they're gone it's only become more obvious that locals simply don't want those jobs.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#335

Post by chii »

debarshri wrote: post #86

This move is well appreciated. Currently, I own a house in oudegracht, Utrecht. It is very terrible situation here. All the apartments in and around me are all the time rented out as airbnb. During peak of pandemic, it was pretty much a ghost town. The housing prices have skyrocketed due to covid, but all these all-cash investor are jumping and swooping in the apartments, holding it for a while and passing it to the…

> People blame the low interest rate

it is the interest rate - because the price of property is related to the cost of money (aka, interest rate).

Investors are merely looking for returns, with as low risk as possible. When property is priced low compared to the rate, you must expect this to happen.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#336

Post by ipaddr »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #313
ForHackernews wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a self-correcting problem, isn't it? Either those cafes and shops will raise prices and pay their staff more, or they'll close down. I've never understood why we're supposed to feel bad for "small business owners" who won't find staff when paying peanuts for their crappy jobs.

Your solution is the problem. The house prices are a blood-sucking squid, and you are pay for them every time you get a coffee or get any service - half the money is going to the labdowner that contributes nothing to the economy. That's why a coffee costs £5 and a plumber charges £100 an hour But we have fools that celebrate rising house prices because their nominal net worth went up

If prices were going down would things be better? You bought a 500,000 and in ten years it will be worth 100,000 would you still make that investment?

Everyone wants prices to remain the same forever. That takes a neutral population growth or more supply

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#337

Post by IkmoIkmo »

rusteh1 wrote: post #215
734129837261 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Designations. That's how. Some houses are built and intended to be rented out to people. These houses are constructed entirely by companies (or people) for that purpose alone. Other houses are meant to be for purchase, and purchase only. If you purchase a house like this and then rent it out, that should be considered breaking the intended designation. So if you as an individual want to own multiple houses to rent ou…

Thanks. What if I purchase a home, to live in. Then I take a job overseas and move for 2-3 years. Must I sell the house rather than rent it out on a short term basis?

No.

For homes purchased after January 1st, you can still get a license to temporary rent out the home. But you'll need to have lived in the home yourself for at least 1 year. Temporary rentals can be done for 2 years at the moment, and extended once more, I assume the same would apply under the new law. So the 2-3 years could be covered.

Existing ownership isn't affected, as far as I know. This only would apply to new transactions.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#338

Post by pigeonhole123 »

em500 wrote: post #301
pigeonhole123 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is only rent? Most people don’t want to rent their whole life in the US https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/owners-equivalent-rent-an...

It uses actual rents for renters and owner-equivalent rents for owners. This does not assume at all that people want to rent their whole life. (The main assumption it relies on is that owners do not systematically understate what they think their own house could be rented for.)

So as long as the interest rates stay extremely low then this hold true?

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#339

Post by Spooky23 »

ForHackernews wrote: post #130
makomk wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the British press and all the wealthy people with second homes still have Brexit as a scapegoat for why cafes and shops in tourist destinations can't find staff. Never mind the fact that AirBNB and second homes have pushed up house prices and rents to the point that it's impossible to live there on the kind of pay those jobs have, according to the media it's all the fault of Brexit driving away the for…

That's a self-correcting problem, isn't it? Either those cafes and shops will raise prices and pay their staff more, or they'll close down. I've never understood why we're supposed to feel bad for "small business owners" who won't find staff when paying peanuts for their crappy jobs.

We’re in a suicide spiral where fiscal policy has staved off economic malaise by kicking the can down the road.

Interest rates have been kept low, which drives real property prices up. Everyone intuitively knows that collapse or high inflation is the endgame, so money flocks to property, which drives up demand.

The issue isn’t the coffee shop in the fishing village, it’s that the fishermen are selling real estate now and nobody actually lives in the village.

You can see this in many places. Lake George, NY is a great example - beautiful village, great location, but can only support tshirt shops from Memorial Day to Labor Day. Manhattan is the same way — the Lower East Side is like a museum of what Manhattan was like, with $2M condo apartments being randomly dropped in and 1/3 of the storefronts vacant.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#340

Post by belter »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #320
dmje wrote: post #25

Amen to this. Two case studies from the UK I've been thinking about recently: 1) Visiting London and spending time in South Kensington - walking back to hotel at night, only about 30% of houses had any lights on. Suggestion is the others are effectively uninhabited, and a search on RightMove shows properties sell for £20-£30m for a 4/5 bed. This isn't normal Londoners, it's outside investment. 2) Cornwall, where I li…

Not sure why the amen is applicable to Dutch cities. I'll take the local perspective from Amsterdam as an example, but it applies more broadly to the other cities as well here. Regarding point 1: There's no real issues with long-term vacancies (the municipality already has laws in-place which fine owners of vacant homes), typically sits between 1 and 2%. That should obviously go down to 0 as much as possible, but it'…

The problem is not only in Amsterdam, and for anybody wondering how crazy the situation is at the moment this is a realistic, up to date view:

"The WILD Dutch housing market and our home buying flop | American in the Netherlands"

https://youtu.be/dFXsfeEEVAM

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