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Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

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Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#271

Post by taffer »

inter_netuser wrote: post #121
nmca wrote: post #42

In the long term, the ethically right answer seems pretty clearly to me to be a land value tax [0]. But due to encouragement of home ownership [1], that's not going to democratically tenable in a lot of countries for 20+ years. Unfortunate situation. [0] In 1879, a man asked "How come all this new economic development and industrialized technology hasn't eliminated poverty and oppression?" That man was Henry George,…

how is land value tax any different from a property tax that all homeowners already pay? If anything, it might end up being lower tax on residential housing, and much higher on commercial/retail.

In contrast to the property tax, the land value tax only taxes the value of the land, not the value of the buildings. A land value tax is always the same regardless of whether the land is undeveloped, a single-family house or an apartment building. A property tax, on the other hand, encourages the former and discourages the latter. A property tax encourages urban sprawl, a land value tax does not.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#272

Post by chimen »

Good. I went to Prague recently (after 10 years) to discover that the entire city centre with all of it's businesses is now owned by chinese people. A 500ml water costs 10 euros and everything seems different, designed to just milk the cash from tourists. Had a much better experience 10+ years ago and made quite a few local friends.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#273

Post by TacticalMalice »

belter wrote: post #210
timwaagh wrote: post #84

I'm very unhappy about this. It won't be possible to buy a reasonable retirement income anymore and all the profits of the property sector will flow toward those deep pocketed property firms who have the right political connections to get permits. I think the governments just want to work us till we either reach a much extended retirement age or die from depression (which you can be euthanized for here). I'll be figh…

If you are buying to rent in the Dutch market, and you are not part of the royal family, or a Black Rock fund you are making a big mistake. You are in a legal environment where you will not be able to evict a non paying tenant for several years. If there are children in the picture or a divorce you will have even more serious problems. The Belastingen will come after your earnings plus, you are likely to be victim of…

Eviction is already possible after 3 months of not paying rents (and sometimes after 2 months if there's a history of non-payment). The landlord has to get a court order, which is commonly granted.

Minors will be placed in foster care if they cannot be placed elsewhere.

Taxes on earnings depend on how you structure your work. They are usually in "box 3" where taxes are based on fictitious returns on investment as a percentage of total wealth and (fictitious) asset class.

That said, law-makers are a significant source of uncertainty and risk.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#274

Post by aikinai »

ForHackernews wrote: post #130
makomk wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the British press and all the wealthy people with second homes still have Brexit as a scapegoat for why cafes and shops in tourist destinations can't find staff. Never mind the fact that AirBNB and second homes have pushed up house prices and rents to the point that it's impossible to live there on the kind of pay those jobs have, according to the media it's all the fault of Brexit driving away the for…

That's a self-correcting problem, isn't it? Either those cafes and shops will raise prices and pay their staff more, or they'll close down. I've never understood why we're supposed to feel bad for "small business owners" who won't find staff when paying peanuts for their crappy jobs.

You think those small business owners are packing away substantial profits they could use to pay staff significantly more?

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#275

Post by taffronaut »

chrisseaton wrote: post #213
lsiebert wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, depending on where you buy. Many homes are much cheaper outside of major cities.

That’d have to be a £60k house.

They do exist. If you can work remotely or don't mind the commute to Cardiff - welcome to Merthyr!

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html...

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#276

Post by varjag »

the-dude wrote: post #178
varjag wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the Netherlands used to allow full tax write-off of the mortgage interest (dunno if they still do). That certainly is bound to heat up the market.

I am not sure 'full write-off' is the correct term. It is tax deductable, so you are taxed less, typically max 50% of the interest sum.

That's the explanation I had from a local back in 2003. He said their whole interest part of the mortgage was eligible for tax rebate.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#277

Post by distances »

marvin wrote: post #71
johndoe0815 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trend here in Trondheim (third-largest city in Norway with 200k residents, of these ca. 40k are students) is that a lot of houses and apartments are explicitly offered for sale with plans for conversion to student apartments. Rents in the city have increased by 8.2% over the last 12 months, property prices by 20-25% over the last two years. The price per square meter to buy anything reasonable is above 6k Eur now…

Everyone is suggesting ineffective solutions with idiotic side effects. The proper way of solving this problem is to build a lot more homes. Otherwise you'll be creating a plan economy where bureaucrats are constantly scrambling to alleviate the side effects of their shuffling of deck-chairs on the sinking ship. But of course, few cities want to do this. The biggest cities in Norway are particularly bad at not even a…

Do you have any examples where building more would have resulted in stabilizing or lowering housing prices? This is the classical suggestion but doesn't seem like there would be any supporting evidence of it actually working in practice.

Of course I want cities to build more. But I don't imagine it will ever actually lower the housing costs.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#278

Post by alexbiet »

The intervention is late, yet much needed. It's time to create some rules for the greedy bankers too, they have been inflating the housing bubble with massive amounts cheap debt for far too long. Can't find a decent property for under €500K on the Dutch market. And bear in mind not everyone has Tech salaries; you have teachers, nurses, drivers, etc. on ~ €20K - €25K per annum before taxes. They would be homeless without social housing or homes passed on through generations.

Dutch properties listed for €350K-€400k are sold for +€50K to +€100K OVER the asking price. To complete the property sale prepare to put another €15K-€20K on the table for various fees, taxes and middlemen. Unless you are a millionaire or be willing to go deep into debt for 30 years and obliterate most of your savings, sadly you have no chance at purchasing a home in the Netherlands.

A home is a basic human utility (shelter), not a pump and dump investment scheme. Making standard homes so expensive that most people cannot afford is completely wrong and goes against society. Property investors have many other options such as investing in new property development, hotels for students, the stock market, new businesses, Bitcoin, etc. Heck, it's time to diversify.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#279

Post by yawaworht1978 »

traceroute66 wrote: post #107
dmje wrote: post #25

Amen to this. Two case studies from the UK I've been thinking about recently: 1) Visiting London and spending time in South Kensington - walking back to hotel at night, only about 30% of houses had any lights on. Suggestion is the others are effectively uninhabited, and a search on RightMove shows properties sell for £20-£30m for a 4/5 bed. This isn't normal Londoners, it's outside investment. 2) Cornwall, where I li…

> spending time in South Kensington - walking back to hotel at night, only about 30% of houses had any lights on. South Kensington is a bit of a curiosity. It is predominantly bordered by Chelsea and Knightsbridge. Chelsea is Russian country, if you are a wealthy Russian, Chelsea is the place to be. Unless you are a Russian oligarch, in which case there are one or two spots a bit further away where you can splash sup…

What about Notting hill, a bedsit can go for 2000 quid per week there, it's in Kensington. Average London rent prices are 1600 quid, that is before council tax, internet and the dreaded tv licence. A more granular overview is Location Studio One bedroom Kensington and Chelsea £1,427 £2,062 Islington £1,383 £1,565 Tower Hamlets £1,398 £1,547 Westminster £1,371 £2,113 Lambeth £1,240 £1,595

One bedroom is not sufficient to raise a family, I think that's safe to say.

So let's move on to the 2 and 3 bedroom properties

Location Ttwo br 3Wbr swestmisnster£ 2,920 £4,152 Camden £ 2,254 £2,880 Kensingtonelsea £3,030 £4,938 Islington £1,934 £2,487

Hammersmith a 1,922 £2,653

Sorry for the formatting.

Cheapest

BBexley£. 1,105 £1,281 Havering £1,120 £1,384 Redbridge £1,293 £1,589 Sutton £ 1,163 £1,498 Waltham Forest £1,364 £1,649

These are before council tax and other costs, which are gonna be laughed at by oligarchs but they do count for normal people.

The new houses nnextto Westfield shopping centre cost around 2000 quid before council tax , zone 3 classic houses with a garden go for 1500 before council tax. its really bad in all London, unless you make 50k after taxes and most devs don't make that money there. t

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#280

Post by distances »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #163
jhgb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way to rent a place is to rent it from an investor. You mean in the Netherlands? Because I never had to do that in my country. I'm not aware of places where the only landlords are investors.

I think you are missing the point. All landowners are investors. They bought the property to make money. That makes them an investor. Maybe not a coporation but an investor.

Lots of student and young people housing is owned by non-profits around here. My whole campus was non-profit.
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