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Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

nltimes.nl

261–270 of 598 posts

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#261
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way to rent a place is to rent it from an investor. You mean in the Netherlands? Because I never had to do that in my country. I'm not aware of places where the only landlords are investors.

I think you are missing the point. All landowners are investors. They bought the property to make money. That makes them an investor. Maybe not a coporation but an investor.

Investor or parasite?

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#262

This is desperately needed. And not just in the major cities; this is happening in every Dutch town. Amsterdam may have prices beyond absurd, but the whole nation is burdened by this problem. In the street I live in the capital of the northern province of Fryslân (Frisia) most homes are owned by their inhabitants, but in the past few years we've seen several houses being bought by small-time investors (who already ow…

> In the street I live in the capital of the northern province of Fryslân (Frisia) most homes are owned by their inhabitants, but in the past few years we've seen several houses being bought by small-time investors (who already own their own home of course, are financially well on their way, and are looking for ways to save their saving from low interest rates and inflation), who charge renters four times what my fellow homeowners and I pay for mortgage.

specifically the last part:

> small-time investors who charge renters four times what my fellow homeowners and I pay for mortgage

But what about maintenance costs though? Those costs are very high, definitely 4x the cost of the mortgage! /s

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#263
post #25

Amen to this. Two case studies from the UK I've been thinking about recently: 1) Visiting London and spending time in South Kensington - walking back to hotel at night, only about 30% of houses had any lights on. Suggestion is the others are effectively uninhabited, and a search on RightMove shows properties sell for £20-£30m for a 4/5 bed. This isn't normal Londoners, it's outside investment. 2) Cornwall, where I li…

> spending time in South Kensington - walking back to hotel at night, only about 30% of houses had any lights on. South Kensington is a bit of a curiosity. It is predominantly bordered by Chelsea and Knightsbridge. Chelsea is Russian country, if you are a wealthy Russian, Chelsea is the place to be. Unless you are a Russian oligarch, in which case there are one or two spots a bit further away where you can splash sup…

Yeah a lot are not residential, a lot of those that are are subdivided into flats, and a chunk of those that remain may just not be occupied outside term time or during a pandemic.

But mostly it's that they're not residential to begin with. Many more are linked to an embassy, restaurants, clubs, nurseries, storage, etc. than you'd realise from 'walking back to hotel at night'.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#265
post #219
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the British press and all the wealthy people with second homes still have Brexit as a scapegoat for why cafes and shops in tourist destinations can't find staff. Never mind the fact that AirBNB and second homes have pushed up house prices and rents to the point that it's impossible to live there on the kind of pay those jobs have, according to the media it's all the fault of Brexit driving away the for…

>it's all the fault of Brexit driving away the foreign workers who had to do the jobs Forgive me since I’m American, but wasn’t getting rid of foreigners taking jobs one of the selling points of Brexit?

The primary driving force was nativism. Even right up to the end the UK wanted to remain in the common market, but part of being in the common market is freedom to migrate.

It also exposed the loss of influence the UK had in the EU. Many provisions were carved out for them in the 80s. But when it came to the EC the EU was not making any exceptions for them this time.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#266
post #219
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the British press and all the wealthy people with second homes still have Brexit as a scapegoat for why cafes and shops in tourist destinations can't find staff. Never mind the fact that AirBNB and second homes have pushed up house prices and rents to the point that it's impossible to live there on the kind of pay those jobs have, according to the media it's all the fault of Brexit driving away the for…

>it's all the fault of Brexit driving away the foreign workers who had to do the jobs Forgive me since I’m American, but wasn’t getting rid of foreigners taking jobs one of the selling points of Brexit?

No, it was recovering the freedom that was getting eaten by Europe, and listening to the vote of the UK people again. Whether it ends up in “getting rid of foreigners” or anything else would only be a second-order result of listening to the Englishman’s vote, if that is what they still vote for in 10 years. The goal of Brexit was democracy, not particular measures left or right.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#267
post #25

Amen to this. Two case studies from the UK I've been thinking about recently: 1) Visiting London and spending time in South Kensington - walking back to hotel at night, only about 30% of houses had any lights on. Suggestion is the others are effectively uninhabited, and a search on RightMove shows properties sell for £20-£30m for a 4/5 bed. This isn't normal Londoners, it's outside investment. 2) Cornwall, where I li…

I mean, it’s an easily fixable problem. Punitively heavy land taxes on non-primary dwellings solves this overnight. It also raises a lot of capital that can be used to provide services in the area.

Unfortunately the wealthy tend not to want to be taxed and they're not averse to fighting back. They've learned that they need to lobby even small local tax-raising authorities to obstruct these kinds of actions. In Wales, local authorities are allowed to raise a local tax premium of up to 100% on holiday homes [1], but few, if any, charge a premium of more than 50%, even in affected areas considered to be in crisis. There's also a loophole that a second home can be declared as a holiday rental property business, without any real intention of letting it out. Welsh authorities work hard to police this by asking to review evidence of lettings (I know this as I own a legit holiday rental property in an affected area) but the enforcers need extra funding to police the tax dodgers.

I don't dispute your underlying point that punitive taxes are a big part of the solution, but I take issue that it's an easy or overnight fix unfortunately because of the interests aligned against imposing them.

[1] https://gov.wales/welsh-government-announces-three-pronged-a...

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#268
post #42

In the long term, the ethically right answer seems pretty clearly to me to be a land value tax [0]. But due to encouragement of home ownership [1], that's not going to democratically tenable in a lot of countries for 20+ years. Unfortunate situation. [0] In 1879, a man asked "How come all this new economic development and industrialized technology hasn't eliminated poverty and oppression?" That man was Henry George,…

how is land value tax any different from a property tax that all homeowners already pay? If anything, it might end up being lower tax on residential housing, and much higher on commercial/retail.

Property tax increases when you improve the property, and land value tax does not. Therefore, property tax creates a disincentive to improve property, and land value tax creates an incentive to improve property.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#269
post #25

Amen to this. Two case studies from the UK I've been thinking about recently: 1) Visiting London and spending time in South Kensington - walking back to hotel at night, only about 30% of houses had any lights on. Suggestion is the others are effectively uninhabited, and a search on RightMove shows properties sell for £20-£30m for a 4/5 bed. This isn't normal Londoners, it's outside investment. 2) Cornwall, where I li…

I mean, it’s an easily fixable problem. Punitively heavy land taxes on non-primary dwellings solves this overnight. It also raises a lot of capital that can be used to provide services in the area.

Yes and no. Yes, your proposal can solve the problem for sure. No, you just can hardly implement it anytime soon. I'm in Australia and Labor lost last election just because they were swearing to remove so called NG(Negative-Gearing, which allows the property investors to offset their income with losses from investment property) before the ballot day, despite NG itself is actually a bizarre idea: why would tax payers cover the asses of the property investors and what's more, in fair amount of NG claims, the so claimed losses were not actually rendered but rather losses in accounting term. If you opt to a different accounting method, they were actually making a profit.

So your proposal will for sure hurt those vested interests, and I would expect it be very hard to pass the parliament. It's great to see Dutch cities actually made that far, I'll keep my eyes wide open to see what's next for them.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it gets harder and harder for normal people to own anything (build up wealth), while building wealth is the best retirement startegy there is. I myself, for example, live in a city where owning the place I live in is just barely getting in reach for me, although I am in the top 30% income bracket of my country. I therefore have to put my savings into the stock market, which is at an all time high.…

The problem is that it gets harder and harder for normal people to own anything ( build up wealth), while building wealth is the best retirement startegy there is. This is the problem in a nutshell! It’s impossible for houses to continue to be great “wealth building” vehicles and for them be affordable. Politicians have prioritized the former and that’s how we got where we are. If we want affordable housing for peopl…

I've often wondered, with enough knowledge to actually know, what would happen if renting housing was made illegal. I imagine prices would drop precipitously, maybe to a point where everyone can buy?
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