Wealthy EU states treat Eastern Europe as a colony
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Re: Wealthy EU states treat Eastern Europe as a colony
#2Are the non-EU states like Belarus and Ukraine really better off than CEE EU states? While the situation may not be ideal for the CEE EU states, the alternative doesn't seem great either.
Re: Wealthy EU states treat Eastern Europe as a colony
#3Are the non-EU states like Belarus and Ukraine really better off than CEE EU states? While the situation may not be ideal for the CEE EU states, the alternative doesn't seem great either.
It seems like a hit piece to me. Nothing is compared to other brain drains that happen through out the global economy. In the EU system places like Prague and Tallinn have grown and reasonable amounts of money comes back with retirees in Europe. In countries with greater wealth inequality how do the brain drains play out?
Re: Wealthy EU states treat Eastern Europe as a colony
#4On the whole, they have no one to blame but themselves - they voted to join, and no one is even trying to leave like the UK did.
They can organize a referendum and leave.
That's unlikely to work for the same reason the US went down the shitter - by now too many voters, but especially all significant political parties, are addicted to various EU handouts. Everyone thinks their chance of stealing more through redistribution are better than striking out on their own.
This will go on until it can't. Which will likely be when next crisis of confidence strikes one of the deadbeat eurozone countries.
Re: Wealthy EU states treat Eastern Europe as a colony
#5Are the non-EU states like Belarus and Ukraine really better off than CEE EU states? While the situation may not be ideal for the CEE EU states, the alternative doesn't seem great either.
I don’t know what to say to that, other than to talk about my experience living in Eastern Eruope: about two of my friends are the ones who remained in the country, everyone else has gone to the west, whether Austria, Germany or the UK, they all understood that there’s a better life waiting for them there (with its own pros and cons, of course). So very few remain with the will and the courage to wish for a system that’s not corrupt and fundamentally broken. And not just the people in STEM. Natural resources are also increasingly leaving, whether legally or through bribes to officials.
And the money, something which always gets thrown at Eastern Europe, how it benefits from incredible amounts of grants - that tends to end up in private pockets and not in restoration, infrastructure or innovation.
Again, I can’t tell you what the way forward should be, because I don’t see it myself and I’m certainly not smart enough to imagine it, but what’s happening is certainly noticeable even to individuals.
Re: Wealthy EU states treat Eastern Europe as a colony
#6The CEE states have seen strong economic growth and they are treated in quite colonial fashion by the old EU. These things are not mutually exclusive.
If anybody scratches their heads why PiS and Fidesz happened, that's one of the reasons why.
Old EU can follow letter of the law, yet it's still evident that companies from CEE can't compete with those who can out-capital them, and who discriminate against them in a million subtle ways.
Re: Wealthy EU states treat Eastern Europe as a colony
#7Are the non-EU states like Belarus and Ukraine really better off than CEE EU states? While the situation may not be ideal for the CEE EU states, the alternative doesn't seem great either.
I don’t know what to say to that, other than to talk about my experience living in Eastern Eruope: about two of my friends are the ones who remained in the country, everyone else has gone to the west, whether Austria, Germany or the UK, they all understood that there’s a better life waiting for them there (with its own pros and cons, of course). So very few remain with the will and the courage to wish for a system th…
My point is that all those things happen in Belarus as well, except even worse. The average salary in Poland is around $1500 usd. In Belarus, it’s 300. In Ukraine, it’s around 800. Belarus is not immune from brain drain, either. Those who can leave, do leave. So the author should consider the alternative to joining the EU before calling the relationship exploitive.
Re: Wealthy EU states treat Eastern Europe as a colony
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t know what to say to that, other than to talk about my experience living in Eastern Eruope: about two of my friends are the ones who remained in the country, everyone else has gone to the west, whether Austria, Germany or the UK, they all understood that there’s a better life waiting for them there (with its own pros and cons, of course). So very few remain with the will and the courage to wish for a system th…
My point is that all those things happen in Belarus as well, except even worse. The average salary in Poland is around $1500 usd. In Belarus, it’s 300. In Ukraine, it’s around 800. Belarus is not immune from brain drain, either. Those who can leave, do leave. So the author should consider the alternative to joining the EU before calling the relationship exploitive.
I fully agree with your stance. I am from Romania, and, although there are still many things missing, things are, IMO, getting better.
There might be some sort of colonial relationship going, but we are getting in return many things as well, and we have grassroots economic initiatives lately as well. The political system is still a mess, but where is it not?
For me, personally, it would make little sense leaving the country. Biggest reason could be the education system sucking a lot compared to the much better education system somewhere in the EU, and this would become important once I have kids.
Re: Wealthy EU states treat Eastern Europe as a colony
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t know what to say to that, other than to talk about my experience living in Eastern Eruope: about two of my friends are the ones who remained in the country, everyone else has gone to the west, whether Austria, Germany or the UK, they all understood that there’s a better life waiting for them there (with its own pros and cons, of course). So very few remain with the will and the courage to wish for a system th…
My point is that all those things happen in Belarus as well, except even worse. The average salary in Poland is around $1500 usd. In Belarus, it’s 300. In Ukraine, it’s around 800. Belarus is not immune from brain drain, either. Those who can leave, do leave. So the author should consider the alternative to joining the EU before calling the relationship exploitive.
Average salary in Belarus is $579, in Minsk is $812 and for IT is $1824. Data for July 2021.
Cost of living in Minsk is 2-3 times lower than in other EU capitals.
Re: Wealthy EU states treat Eastern Europe as a colony
#10[deleted]