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Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

nltimes.nl

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Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#71

Post by marvin »

johndoe0815 wrote: post #38
Isinlor wrote: post #7

Do I understand correctly that they want to kick out all the students from the cities? When I was studying in Groningen I had to look for places to rent out of the city. Some students were camping in tents in front of the campus. Here is a photo from another city, Tilburg: https://www.dutchnews.nl/wpcms/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/st... Some academic staff were even taking them in due to shortage of places to rent. I…

The trend here in Trondheim (third-largest city in Norway with 200k residents, of these ca. 40k are students) is that a lot of houses and apartments are explicitly offered for sale with plans for conversion to student apartments. Rents in the city have increased by 8.2% over the last 12 months, property prices by 20-25% over the last two years. The price per square meter to buy anything reasonable is above 6k Eur now…

Everyone is suggesting ineffective solutions with idiotic side effects. The proper way of solving this problem is to build a lot more homes. Otherwise you'll be creating a plan economy where bureaucrats are constantly scrambling to alleviate the side effects of their shuffling of deck-chairs on the sinking ship.

But of course, few cities want to do this. The biggest cities in Norway are particularly bad at not even attempting to solve this problem at the root.

Let's just say it loudly and proudly: If you're against allowing the free market to build as much as the demand indicates, you're for high housing costs and screw everyone who is negatively affected. This hypocritical virtue signalling has gotten really old.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#72

Post by mcv »

keewee7 wrote: post #41
winkelwagen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that means middle income families or starters are not able to buy those houses, and the investors driving the prices up. Then yes, it’s a problem.

Why should middle income families be able to buy property in some of the wealthiest and most expensive cities in the world? There is suburbs for that.

The fact that those cities are so expensive is exactly the problem. Those cities are healthier if they have a healthy mix of different population groups. I live in Amsterdam and would hate to see it become a rich people's ghetto, though it's definitely at risk of that happening. Maybe it already is.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#73

Post by jhgb »

Isinlor wrote: post #61
jhgb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People living in them? That's how it mostly works elsewhere. Also, it is not customary in the Netherlands for students to live in dorms?

If there was enough rooms I could have rented a tiny room, like a Norwegian prison cell, from a student housing. But there was not enough of these rooms. And they were available only for one year. You had to vacate them after that.

Presumably the reason for why there isn't enough housing for students is related to why there isn't enough housing for everybody else.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#74

Post by pigeonhole123 »

mcv wrote: post #47
mercy_dude wrote: post #39

There is a better way - raise the real rate. Cheap loans along with endless printing has basically made fiat useless as a medium to store value, the only reason fiat exists now is as a medium to exchange goods/services. Here the Fed has been buying over 100B of mortgage based securities a month. This got to stop. For all the talks about Wealth inequality, I don’t understand how politicians fail to understand this bas…

I don't think it's an issue of inflation. Inflation has been super low for the past decade or more. Everything else is cheap, it's just housing that's expensive. It's a combination of scarcity and speculation leading to more artificial scarcity. Make it less attractive for speculators and build more houses.

How is the CPI a useful measure of inflation if it ignores the things people actually have to spend money on like housing and healthcare?

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#75

Post by sam_lowry_ »

csomar wrote: post #46
anothernewdude wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those empty homes should be torn down or squatted in. I imagine an organisation like a squatters union could be set up to manage protection for them.

Sure. Let's fix a housing crisis by completely breaking up laws, society and order.

It's not uncommon for cities to pas laws that aim at the reduction of unoccupied spaces amid housing crisis. Actually, most European capitals do this either by raising taxes on empty housing or by partially legalizing squatting.

Londongrad is an exception to what is otherwise a rule.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#76

Post by reacharavindh »

I may be biased because I moved recently to the Netherlands and looking to buy our first home and stop paying rent.

But, the house prices are crazy out here. I work in tech and my wife is an academic. We earn what is definitely above market average, and it looks like we cannot afford most houses we find in the area where we are renting now(well outside Amsterdam).

At this juncture, at least temporarily, investors who are looking to buy up properties and make money out of it need to be stopped by regulations. This is for the greater good. Investors can always find other avenues to invest. But, people need reasonable housing prices.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#77

Post by hvdijk »

dwightgunning wrote: post #48
varjag wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the Netherlands used to allow full tax write-off of the mortgage interest (dunno if they still do). That certainly is bound to heat up the market.

This is still in place for PPOR. Does not apply for investment properties AFAIK.

There are a few other cases where it applies as well, but you're right that it doesn't apply to investment properties.

Also, it's no longer always a full write off, it's a write off at a capped rate. Those with low incomes have a full write off, those with high incomes see a more limited effect.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#78

Post by lotsofpulp »

stavros wrote: post #69
lotsofpulp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that it gets harder and harder for normal people to own anything (build up wealth), In the US, it is easier than ever. Open a free account online at a number of brokerages, and buy some broad market low cost equity index ETF. The problem is government subsidies for real estate. Get rid of federal taxpayer guaranteed mortgages (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, ginnie mae). Get rid of 1031 exchanges. Let the m…

Even my low-risk Vanguard ETFs have gone up like 30% in a year. That seems insane to me.

I would expect that. Politically, everyone is aligned with ensuring equity prices go up. And so everything possible will be done to accomplish it.

I am 100% equities for any funds I do not need in the next few years. Index fund ETFs are the real TIPS, Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#79

Post by varjag »

dogma1138 wrote: post #55
varjag wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the Netherlands used to allow full tax write-off of the mortgage interest (dunno if they still do). That certainly is bound to heat up the market.

That’s not a full write off and it’s only for a mortgage on a property you reside in. BTW many countries in the EU allow you to write off interest from loans even from credit cards but it didn’t cause an inflation of personal credit line or increased utilization.

The line of credit is not a physical, limited-availability asset however (and not something among basic people needs).

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#80

Post by keewee7 »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #35
iamnotwhoiam wrote: post #13

So investors buy the homes then rent them out? What’s the problem? In some asian markets investors buy homes then sit on them unused for years. That’s a problem.

The problem is that it gets harder and harder for normal people to own anything (build up wealth), while building wealth is the best retirement startegy there is. I myself, for example, live in a city where owning the place I live in is just barely getting in reach for me, although I am in the top 30% income bracket of my country. I therefore have to put my savings into the stock market, which is at an all time high.…

>The problem is that it gets harder and harder for normal people to own anything

One of the reasons is that people insist on living and working in some of the wealthiest and most expensive cities in the world.

I live a cheap town and my commute to work in the 2nd biggest city in my country is just 25 minutes.

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