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Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

nltimes.nl

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Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#61

Post by Isinlor »

jhgb wrote: post #33
Isinlor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> investors won't be allowed to buy cheap and medium-priced homes and rent them out So, who will be renting cheap and medium-priced homes? There are already extremely severe shortages as exemplified by students camping in tents.

People living in them? That's how it mostly works elsewhere. Also, it is not customary in the Netherlands for students to live in dorms?

If there was enough rooms I could have rented a tiny room, like a Norwegian prison cell, from a student housing. But there was not enough of these rooms. And they were available only for one year. You had to vacate them after that.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#62

Post by Genego »

iamnotwhoiam wrote: post #13

So investors buy the homes then rent them out? What’s the problem? In some asian markets investors buy homes then sit on them unused for years. That’s a problem.

The problem is that these investors have raised rents nationally to a point where there is no affordable housing outside of social housing (8-15+ year wait lists). And this happened in a very short time period. If I'd want a 60-80m2 apartment in the city I currently live, I'd have to pay 1000-1200+ Euro for that; three to four years ago, that would have been half. Just over the border in Germany the same apartment goes for 350-500 Euros (NRW to be specific). The housing market here feels beyond crazy. Real estate prices themselves are also exploding +10%~ month over month

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#63

Post by leoedin »

iamnotwhoiam wrote: post #13

So investors buy the homes then rent them out? What’s the problem? In some asian markets investors buy homes then sit on them unused for years. That’s a problem.

A lot of these investors are 50+ year olds who've benefited from tremendous unearned wealth from their primary residence.

When you own outright your main house and have paid effectively no rent or mortgage payments for decades, that surplus income makes buying a second investment property, even at today's prices, relatively easy. The extra money and demand entering the market pushes prices up.

Then the renting tenants have to pay an ever increasing share of their income in rent. They never build up capital, and so can never afford to buy anywhere.

This is a societal problem - home ownership means stability (to have children), commitment to an area, a willingness to invest time into improving it. When you can be cast on to the streets with a few months notice at your landlords whim, you have none of that.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#64

Post by ___luigi »

winkelwagen wrote: post #18

Better late than never. The housing market in the Netherlands is currently terrible. I’ve “fled” the country for the next few years. Hoping that would be enough time for the market to get healthy again. It’s just insane that we made it this easy for people who were well off to begin with to profit. Just sold a house, the profit I got from buying and selling that house alone makes me nauseous. Makes me wonder why I wo…

Is it better in neighboring countries?. There was a discussion [1] about controlled rent market few days ago, it seems that the problem is related to growth.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58317555

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#65

Post by birbs »

mcv wrote: post #47
mercy_dude wrote: post #39

There is a better way - raise the real rate. Cheap loans along with endless printing has basically made fiat useless as a medium to store value, the only reason fiat exists now is as a medium to exchange goods/services. Here the Fed has been buying over 100B of mortgage based securities a month. This got to stop. For all the talks about Wealth inequality, I don’t understand how politicians fail to understand this bas…

I don't think it's an issue of inflation. Inflation has been super low for the past decade or more. Everything else is cheap, it's just housing that's expensive. It's a combination of scarcity and speculation leading to more artificial scarcity. Make it less attractive for speculators and build more houses.

Inflation is extremely high: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-or-century/

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#66

Post by jhgb »

988747 wrote: post #44
jhgb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People living in them? That's how it mostly works elsewhere. Also, it is not customary in the Netherlands for students to live in dorms?

Right, because that’s what every family dreams about: having a stranger living in their house. Also, if there was enough space in dorms for everyone there wouldn’t be those students camping in tents, as OP wrote.

There's no need for every family to sublet. Usually a small minority of residences house subletters.

I'm not quite sure how worsening the situation for everyone by property investors hoarding houses would make it better for students, either.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#67

Post by saulpw »

nmca wrote: post #42

In the long term, the ethically right answer seems pretty clearly to me to be a land value tax [0]. But due to encouragement of home ownership [1], that's not going to democratically tenable in a lot of countries for 20+ years. Unfortunate situation. [0] In 1879, a man asked "How come all this new economic development and industrialized technology hasn't eliminated poverty and oppression?" That man was Henry George,…

How about a land value tax with an exemption for primary residence?

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#68

Post by supperburg »

I can’t read a clickbait article. It reminds me of when some Swiss people wanted to use their power of direct democracy to put a cap on CEO pay. The Swiss were smart enough to vote it down. If every country had such a system, the world would quickly burst into flames. And here we have some Dutch people who want to nationalize housing development. Because without private investors, there will be nobody else besides the government to develop housing. The dutch and their government are exceptional enough to make it work I would imagine. But a lesser government would quickly turn nationalized housing into a disaster.

These people are angry at housing prices. Just wait a while longer and the housing investors will all be experiencing something much more painful than a government buyout and your houses will be quite affordable. That the beauty of a free market.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#69

Post by stavros »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #51
turbinerneiter wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it gets harder and harder for normal people to own anything (build up wealth), while building wealth is the best retirement startegy there is. I myself, for example, live in a city where owning the place I live in is just barely getting in reach for me, although I am in the top 30% income bracket of my country. I therefore have to put my savings into the stock market, which is at an all time high.…

> The problem is that it gets harder and harder for normal people to own anything (build up wealth), In the US, it is easier than ever. Open a free account online at a number of brokerages, and buy some broad market low cost equity index ETF. The problem is government subsidies for real estate. Get rid of federal taxpayer guaranteed mortgages (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, ginnie mae). Get rid of 1031 exchanges. Let the m…

Even my low-risk Vanguard ETFs have gone up like 30% in a year. That seems insane to me.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#70

Post by leoedin »

keewee7 wrote: post #41
winkelwagen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that means middle income families or starters are not able to buy those houses, and the investors driving the prices up. Then yes, it’s a problem.

Why should middle income families be able to buy property in some of the wealthiest and most expensive cities in the world? There is suburbs for that.

The problem of inflated house prices extends to the suburbs and beyond
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