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Migrating from Docker to Podman

marcusnoble.co.uk

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Re: Migrating from Docker to Podman

#81

Post by yunohn »

ayewo wrote: post #52
CyanLite2 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're right. And the caveat is still that Docker Desktop costs $240 a year only for companies with $10m+ in revenue or 250+ employees. Free for everyone else. I don't get the whole "Let's spend weeks rewriting our build infrastructure to save $240 a year" strategy going on here.

> I don't get the whole "Let's spend weeks rewriting our build infrastructure to save $240 a year" strategy going on here. I think that's because 2 things are at play here: 1. People are busy and often rarely read past the headline announcing the change, so they are unlikely to know of the caveat. 2. People don't like being taxed at the infrastructure level, so the default price for plumbing tools like Docker is $0.…

But who is guaranteeing a free alternative? Someone has to build and maintain it, and as time goes by, they will also want compensation.

Re: Migrating from Docker to Podman

#82

Post by thomasbacklund »

sgt wrote: post #76
thomasbacklund wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, We use haproxy pods for inbound traffic, they perform TLS termination and simply pass the traffic over to a local proxy pod. The haproxy pod (and all other pods) communicate with each other over this local proxy service which is running on each host. We have a very simplified and robust overall architecture, were each pod allocates a specific virtual port and the proxy will try each host for that pod (and rem…

Ok thanks. Interesting approach. I guess it would be interesting to see how easy something is to troubleshoot, should something actually go wrong.

Indeed, the goal has to keep the number of moving parts down as much as possible so it can be easy to understand the full cluster and how to troubleshoot it. But of course, it still requires knowledge about the architecture to do so.

Re: Migrating from Docker to Podman

#83

Post by alias_neo »

kenada wrote: post #78
alias_neo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the heads up. It's worth noting for others that (it appears from a quick read, I haven't actually used this yet), the compromise for gaining the "docker-compose" superpower is that you will have to run a podman service (Daemon). This comes counter to some (not all) of the benefits I mentioned above, but is a necessary compromise if one wants the power of compose style orchestration; that is, that there mus…

The Podman daemon can run as a user service, so the only advantage that would be lost is not having to run a daemon at all (but I don’t think one can avoid that if Docker API compatibility is needed). Is there something else I’m not considering?

No Daemon at all is what I was alluding to. A smaller memory footprint and lower attack surface are advantages of that, it may not be an issue for many/most but is worth pointing out I hope.

Re: Migrating from Docker to Podman

#84

Post by amelius »

motiejus wrote: post #21

Shameless plug: I wrote undocker[1] to convert docker images to a rootfs tarball, so I can run them with plain systemd. Goal: no more daemons to run 3rd party containers, systemd is good enough by now: resource limits, isolation, chroot, dynamic users, logging, and more. Low-level tooling is done, I am now building ecosystem around it: easy installation, convert to deb/rpm, systemd units, etc. [1]: https://sr.ht/~mot…

Can this be installed and run as a non-root user?

Re: Migrating from Docker to Podman

#85

Post by NexRebular »

motiejus wrote: post #21

Shameless plug: I wrote undocker[1] to convert docker images to a rootfs tarball, so I can run them with plain systemd. Goal: no more daemons to run 3rd party containers, systemd is good enough by now: resource limits, isolation, chroot, dynamic users, logging, and more. Low-level tooling is done, I am now building ecosystem around it: easy installation, convert to deb/rpm, systemd units, etc. [1]: https://sr.ht/~mot…

Been looking something like this for running dockered software on lx-zones. Will definitely give it a go.

Re: Migrating from Docker to Podman

#86

Post by doctor_eval »

ayewo wrote: post #52
CyanLite2 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're right. And the caveat is still that Docker Desktop costs $240 a year only for companies with $10m+ in revenue or 250+ employees. Free for everyone else. I don't get the whole "Let's spend weeks rewriting our build infrastructure to save $240 a year" strategy going on here.

> I don't get the whole "Let's spend weeks rewriting our build infrastructure to save $240 a year" strategy going on here. I think that's because 2 things are at play here: 1. People are busy and often rarely read past the headline announcing the change, so they are unlikely to know of the caveat. 2. People don't like being taxed at the infrastructure level, so the default price for plumbing tools like Docker is $0.…

I think there’s a third problem. Docker on MacOS is still pretty buggy. After all these years there are still issues that cause it to use 30% CPU when idle on my Mac, and I’m sure I’m not alone. If docker on Mac was rock solid then I’d probably look more kindly on this.

We aren’t even big enough for this to affect us, it is just one more reason for us to look at how we can remove docker from our desktop infrastructure and replace it with something that makes us more efficient.

Re: Migrating from Docker to Podman

#87

Post by acdha »

CyanLite2 wrote: post #46
mdoms wrote: post #38

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that Docker is only charging for Docker Desktop, which is a GUI and management tool required to use Docker on Windows and MacOS - both of which are not supported by Podman. And Docker Desktop is not required (or even available) on Linux - the only platform Podman supports.

you're right. And the caveat is still that Docker Desktop costs $240 a year only for companies with $10m+ in revenue or 250+ employees. Free for everyone else. I don't get the whole "Let's spend weeks rewriting our build infrastructure to save $240 a year" strategy going on here.

I definitely share your thinking on the costs but there is one complication: purchasing things can be surprisingly hard in large organizations, and if Docker doesn’t have the blessing as an enterprise procurement that can be far more in overhead than the base cost.

For people in .gov, that can be waiting a fiscal year to get it in the budget and slogging through paperwork to show that they’re in compliance:

https://twitter.com/waldojaquith/status/1432802347483271169

Re: Migrating from Docker to Podman

#88

Post by laurencerowe »

doctor_eval wrote: post #86
ayewo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get the whole "Let's spend weeks rewriting our build infrastructure to save $240 a year" strategy going on here. I think that's because 2 things are at play here: 1. People are busy and often rarely read past the headline announcing the change, so they are unlikely to know of the caveat. 2. People don't like being taxed at the infrastructure level, so the default price for plumbing tools like Docker is $0.…

I think there’s a third problem. Docker on MacOS is still pretty buggy. After all these years there are still issues that cause it to use 30% CPU when idle on my Mac, and I’m sure I’m not alone. If docker on Mac was rock solid then I’d probably look more kindly on this. We aren’t even big enough for this to affect us, it is just one more reason for us to look at how we can remove docker from our desktop infrastructur…

> After all these years there are still issues that cause it to use 30% CPU when idle on my Mac, and I’m sure I’m not alone.

I had the same frustrations until the other day I saw a tip to enable 'Use the new Virtualization framework' under Preferences -> Experimental Features. Since then Docker's background CPU usage has dropped to 1% and I no longer bother stopping it when I'm not using it.

Re: Migrating from Docker to Podman

#89

Post by storrgie »

ecnahc515 wrote: post #68
motiejus wrote: post #21

Shameless plug: I wrote undocker[1] to convert docker images to a rootfs tarball, so I can run them with plain systemd. Goal: no more daemons to run 3rd party containers, systemd is good enough by now: resource limits, isolation, chroot, dynamic users, logging, and more. Low-level tooling is done, I am now building ecosystem around it: easy installation, convert to deb/rpm, systemd units, etc. [1]: https://sr.ht/~mot…

For what it’s worth, podman has a `podman generate systemd` command for generating systemd units for running containers using podman.

Podman also switched to notify based units in 3.3.3

Re: Migrating from Docker to Podman

#90

Post by Aeolun »

geerlingguy wrote: post #73
xgbi wrote: post #37

I see all comments here and I’m wondering if anybody actually read TFA. This is NOT a drop-in replacement on Mac, very far from it. No volumes mount from the host, no auto port forward, complications when building images, bugs where the socket isn’t cleared etc. They will get there eventually but this is way over hyped for a sensible replacement for docker on Mac.

Seems like the majority of responses I get when I ask about Mac support is "why don't you just run Linux?" I do, but not for my workstation, where I do media production and a lot of other things that require a GUI and I use software that, unfortunately, doesn't run as well on Linux (if at all). I have plenty of Linux servers, but if I wanted to do all my development work 'over the wire' I wouldn't use Docker Desktop…

Well, I’d run linux, but I can’t do that on my enterprise laptop since it isn’t supported in any way, shape or form.
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