U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#51

Post by gfodor » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

WanderPanda wrote: post #27

samizdis wrote: post #3

"Looking at the abortion law, or the gun law, or the voting law, it's a form of vigilante justice, where you're empowering individuals to enforce the law," said Tyson Tuttle, the CEO of Austin-based Silicon Laboratories (SLAB.O). "It's been a rough week in Texas and a harbinger of what's to come across the country." I'm from across the pond, and have spent limited time in the US - none of it in Texas - but I always t…

Human rights are a binary thing: either you are a human and you have them, or you are not a human and you don't have them. IMO it all comes down to when we define the bag of cells to be a human being. Once the bag of cells is a human being murdering it is obviously a crime. IMO any view point between the first cells are already a human being to it becoming a human at birth are valid. Why not settle this in a referend…

This frame is an error, and is leading to a lot of unnecessary division imo.

Unborn people are unique because they are entirely dependent upon a mother to survive in a way that cannot be replaced.

The human right to life is not absolute, at least under current law: a person who literally requires your body’s metabolical processes to survive is not entitled to that, and so we have decided the provider has the choice to cease providing it at anytime, with the stipulation that at the time the decision is made, they cannot choose mechanisms to end it which unnecessarily harm the recipient.

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#52

Post by anonymouse008 » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

colinmhayes wrote: post #24

collegeburner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is really a very simple issue, those who say it is about "regulating women" attack a straw man. Pro-lifers believe that abortion is murder of the baby. This trumps a woman's right for a medical procedure. So the question about whether it's a private medical choice or an issue of bodily autonomy doesn't even enter into the discussion. There are laws against murdering someone other ways that restrict bodily au…

I don't see how it matters whether the fetus is alive or not. If it can't survive outside the mother then the mother has the right to kill it. If you caused a car accident which lead to the other person needing a kidney transplant that only you can provide should you be required to give up a kidney? I don't see how abortion is different. Either way you made a risky choice that you knew could cause someone's life to b…

> I don't see how it matters whether the fetus is alive or not. If it can't survive outside the mother then the mother has the right to kill it.

I shuddered a bit reading this. By this logic, at any point where I am dependent on someone else for my survival in passage (say an airplane) the principle in the relationship (the pilot or airline) has a right to kill me?

If that’s the logic, then we can squarely see that we have chosen to punish those who have any responsibility in that situation. Re: wrongful death

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#53

Post by xivzgrev » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

samizdis wrote: post #3

"Looking at the abortion law, or the gun law, or the voting law, it's a form of vigilante justice, where you're empowering individuals to enforce the law," said Tyson Tuttle, the CEO of Austin-based Silicon Laboratories (SLAB.O). "It's been a rough week in Texas and a harbinger of what's to come across the country." I'm from across the pond, and have spent limited time in the US - none of it in Texas - but I always t…

For voting, generally speaking these restrictions tend to make it harder for people who lean Democrat. There’s a good ACLU overview here: https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-vot...

For abortion, it’s comes down to this: do you believe a fertilized egg is a baby, and it’s equivalent to murder? And if you do / don’t, at what point are you ok with it?

Lot of people here believe it’s a baby at moment of conception, so any abortion is murder. Lot of people also believe it’s the woman choice, it’s her body. These two opposite forces tug and pull and you end up with shit like after six weeks it’s illegal.

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#54

Post by lenkite » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #14

collegeburner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is really a very simple issue, those who say it is about "regulating women" attack a straw man. Pro-lifers believe that abortion is murder of the baby. This trumps a woman's right for a medical procedure. So the question about whether it's a private medical choice or an issue of bodily autonomy doesn't even enter into the discussion. There are laws against murdering someone other ways that restrict bodily au…

In which case it's very simple: Is a fetus/embryo a baby or not? And what is the logical conclusion of that?

More importantly, is a fetus 6 weeks after conception, after the development of the umbilical cord, a baby or not ?

We can take the view that as long as the child is inside the mother, then the mother's choice trumps the right of the child to exist. After all, the mother's body is hosting the child.

Or we can take the view that rights of life immediately after conception is sacred and must be upheld.

Or we can take the view, that the fetus is considered a human being after some X amount of time in the mother's womb. Maybe until the umbilical cord is developed and nutrient-transfer, pseudo-breathing begins ? Or maybe only within the first trimester ?

I actually don't know what is the right decision. Though I am personally more in the line of "My Body, My Choice", but that includes vaccination. (even if I am fully vaccinated).

I wish humanity developed artificial wombs and full social support system from baby to adulthood so this question goes away.

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#55

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

samizdis wrote: post #3

"Looking at the abortion law, or the gun law, or the voting law, it's a form of vigilante justice, where you're empowering individuals to enforce the law," said Tyson Tuttle, the CEO of Austin-based Silicon Laboratories (SLAB.O). "It's been a rough week in Texas and a harbinger of what's to come across the country." I'm from across the pond, and have spent limited time in the US - none of it in Texas - but I always t…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#56

Post by gjsman-1000 » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #28

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which case it's very simple: Is a fetus/embryo a baby or not? And what is the logical conclusion of that?

The viability standard of Roe v Wade is not about personhood but about physical dependency. In other words, it’s not murder, and is ethical, to pull the plug on someone who’s hooked to your body to survive, if there is no other way to save them. This is a very enlightened stance imo, and inductively implies abortion will one day be both illegal and in low demand.

Does this imply then that, let's say a mother was in a position where breastfeeding her child was the only way the child would survive (in the wilderness for some reason, for example), that she should be acquitted if she refused to do so and the child died? The baby needed to be hooked on her body to survive.

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#57

Post by lax4ever » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

colinmhayes wrote: post #24

collegeburner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is really a very simple issue, those who say it is about "regulating women" attack a straw man. Pro-lifers believe that abortion is murder of the baby. This trumps a woman's right for a medical procedure. So the question about whether it's a private medical choice or an issue of bodily autonomy doesn't even enter into the discussion. There are laws against murdering someone other ways that restrict bodily au…

I don't see how it matters whether the fetus is alive or not. If it can't survive outside the mother then the mother has the right to kill it. If you caused a car accident which lead to the other person needing a kidney transplant that only you can provide should you be required to give up a kidney? I don't see how abortion is different. Either way you made a risky choice that you knew could cause someone's life to b…

A baby outside the womb can't survive without support either. Why is it OK to kill the child in the womb but not outside the womb based on that position?

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#58

Post by WanderPanda » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

bserge wrote: post #40

Sevii wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is a huge country and we've been discovering over the last decade that we are a lot more divided than we realized. It's like combining France, Germany, England, Spain and Italy into one country and expecting them to agree on everything. Luckily in America we can just move to a state where reasonable people run things.

Strangely, all of those countries agree on important societal issues.

cough Brexit cough

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#59

Post by bambax » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

collegeburner wrote: post #12

samizdis wrote: post #3

"Looking at the abortion law, or the gun law, or the voting law, it's a form of vigilante justice, where you're empowering individuals to enforce the law," said Tyson Tuttle, the CEO of Austin-based Silicon Laboratories (SLAB.O). "It's been a rough week in Texas and a harbinger of what's to come across the country." I'm from across the pond, and have spent limited time in the US - none of it in Texas - but I always t…

Abortion is really a very simple issue, those who say it is about "regulating women" attack a straw man. Pro-lifers believe that abortion is murder of the baby. This trumps a woman's right for a medical procedure. So the question about whether it's a private medical choice or an issue of bodily autonomy doesn't even enter into the discussion. There are laws against murdering someone other ways that restrict bodily au…

> Abortion is really a very simple issue, those who say it is about "regulating women" attack a straw man. Pro-lifers believe that abortion is murder of the baby.

Doubtful. So-called "pro-lifers" are also, generally, against other forms of birth-control, including pills and condoms.

Also, even if they did believe that an embryo is a baby, that doesn't make it so. What they "believe" (or say they believe) shouldn't matter; what matters is what is.

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#60

Post by beaner » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #14

collegeburner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is really a very simple issue, those who say it is about "regulating women" attack a straw man. Pro-lifers believe that abortion is murder of the baby. This trumps a woman's right for a medical procedure. So the question about whether it's a private medical choice or an issue of bodily autonomy doesn't even enter into the discussion. There are laws against murdering someone other ways that restrict bodily au…

In which case it's very simple: Is a fetus/embryo a baby or not? And what is the logical conclusion of that?

It is an interesting question. Clearly by the end of the term the baby can be forced out and live. It cannot live independently - but neither can a baby that has been born naturally. It takes like, five years for that. So dependence on the mother is not part of the definition of life.

So when does it start? When does it go from cells to alive inside the mother? No answer. Activists will shout "my body" all day but clearly there may be a second living entity that is not their body.

Nobody is willing to come propose a rational concept of when a baby's life begins. I suspect, these days, because it would result in a determination similar to Texas'.

Activists also say it's "men controlling women's bodies" but never acknowledge that half the voters are women.

I'm not even pro-life. But none of the pro-choice takes are in good faith. If you want to be perceived as rational and therefore be more convincing, (1) acknowledge that it is not a men-vs-women topic, and (2) propose a sane test for when life begins. Seems so bizarre that so many people supposedly believe in "science" but cannot figure out (2).