There's a book everyone should read who is interested in these topics: The True Believer by Eric Hoffer.
How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
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Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#792I think people are over-analysing this issue here at HN. It is far better for upper class to ensure that people discuss and focus on issues like gender and skin colour than the class differences. Hence, they ensured that this is the issue plebs would hear all over on the media and shift their attention from class divides to gender and skin colour.
This is true but they also have the luxury of worrying about it versus survival, so it isn’t necessarily a “distraction” they cultivated intentionally.
But also, members of the LGBTQIA+ and people of color always have to worry about these issues because it is part of our survival. Many in the queer community (I personally advocate for this term versus LGBTQIA but that’s a separate thing) are also willing to call out companies who are obviously unfriendly but take advantage of pride month (I suspect it’s similar for people of color but since I am not I don’t want to speak to that)
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#793I think people are over-analysing this issue here at HN. It is far better for upper class to ensure that people discuss and focus on issues like gender and skin colour than the class differences. Hence, they ensured that this is the issue plebs would hear all over on the media and shift their attention from class divides to gender and skin colour.
This is correct with the caveat that there's no "they" there. Or like people say, there's identity politics and then there's actual politics. Or yet another way of putting it is that class differences trump fake differences in the real world but academia and the media focus on fake differences. Hierarchies and social strata exist and persist over centuries. The problem of economic inequality is a tough nut to crack.…
The main problem is wokeness gives some people political leverage they wouldn't otherwise have, and it's hard to fire them even if they are shitty at work. That's a real problem.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#794Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the core principles of being woke require ruthlessness (“silence is violence”, etc).
What are the core principles of being woke?
Not sure how that's important. Very often looking from the outside, and particularly at outcomes, is quite sufficient.
I really don't have to understand the core principles of Maoism to be opposed.
I really don't have to understand the core principles of the Khmer Rouge to be opposed.
I really don't have to understand the core principles of Fascism to be opposed.
I really don't have to understand the core principles of Stalinism to be opposed.
What's more, what the core principles are may not be very relevant, because very often the most heinous acts are performed in the service of supposedly very fine "principles". In fact, the more hallowed the principles, the more permission/cover they often give to their followers for the most heinous acts. After all, they are doing this in the name of what is good and righteous.
And of course, this "do you understand X" is typically a deflection, particularly if X does its damn best to obscurantist. And this is often deployed quite tactically.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#795Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed. The woke are experts at placing people into endless categories and determining which is “good” or “bad”. Which are the “oppressors” and the “victims”. Listen to their rhetoric, it is pretty much the opposite of live and let live. One of the more ridiculous ideas to come out of this is that “everything is a human construct”. For example, it appears to be a woke idea that mathematics, science is some human (mor…
While I agree with your narrative, it also seems like a perfect straw man. It seems like the world has gone crazy, but via the web we're exposed to every crazy thing. I don't know how to reconcile these two things. There are surely people stuck in environments for whom it completely describes their experience. But like the wokeness narratives themselves, there are also going to be people facing adversity for other re…
Not denying the use of a straw man or some humor to illustrate my point.
Like any movement, I’m sure there are some valid points being made. And like any movement, this one appeals to some legit human needs: significance, connection, contribution, etc.
I think my main beef with wokeism is how disempowering it ends up being to an individual subscriber. The ideas being perpetuated (I am a victim, I am an oppressor but will now be a white savior) are useless and counterproductive in the real world.
The very sad and unfortunate thing is that some naive people are tying up their whole identities with this crap just to feel validated or connected to some group. No judgement, we all need those things. My concern is that they will end up figuring out way too late that internet points don’t pay the rent.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#796Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not really a conspiracy as it doesn’t need to be centralized. Class resentment articles don’t get traction with upper class media gatekeepers but white guilt does. So the market produces what the gatekeepers want.
This was, quite ironically, often missed by critics of feminism. They would say: What do you mean, a secret conspiracy by all men in a smoke-filled room to keep all women down? As if there was no such thing as incentives and soft power.
In fairness, they were probably trying to elicit a more detailed description of the nebulous “patriarchy” that seems to be behind every social ill in the eyes of the feminist.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#797How about we get mad about the fact that the top .01% wealthiest people are stripping the country for profits, using the military as a mercenary force to grab other countries oil reserves, and wrecking the climate and leaving us to die, rather than this vacuous culture wars bullshit? Meanwhile the fed prints trillions and trillions of dollars and shoves it directly into the stock market while millions of people have…
Wokeness is a problem because it is an intentional distraction from the real problems.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#798Obviously there is more interest in people expressing their views on this new woke world and how they are or are not ok with it.
From an intellectual point of view no one is ok with woke culture because it does not get everything right.
But that is the nature of trends. The few things that it used to be about was so empirically true but in trend when it’s stretched to every civil fight it loses the central meaning. Now it has become an expression for things that need to change. Used by whatever genre of people are open to its founding culture.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#799Earlier quoted context omitted.
AFAIK The core is freedom, i.e. a lack of coercion of any kind. If, to be yourself, you need to claim someone else property, then Libertrarians would say it goes against the core principles of liberty, because to execute this claim you exercise coertion. But as long as you do not exert coercion on no one else, you're free to be yourself anyway you like.
There nothing "freedom" about some sole family owning the only water supply generation after generation or whatever dystopian scenario that libertarianism likely would bring about. In practice it's just a dismantling of democracy in favour of feudalistic power through wealth and property.
That's a nice strawman you've got. I think what you're describing is anarchy.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#800As a christian I believe in mercy and grace. And yes, many of us 'believers' have not practised what we preached. Many of us do try however not to be hypocrites. Here's my question. Where is mercy and grace in the midst of wokeness? I want you to believe my christian message but I will not force you to do so. I don't want to introduce laws to force you to believe what I believe. I don't want you to lose your job beca…
Identity politics is a Marxist revolutionary movement. As Lenin pointed out, in the Revolution, morality is subsumed in politics and Revolutionary violence is not actual violence, or rather, it is not immoral. The is no mercy to be shown to anyone who obstructs the Revolution. Phase I of the Revolution is to destroy the values of the "oppressive" preexisting order. Phase II is the realization of the promised Utopia,…
Identity politics has virtually nothing to do with Karl Marx's philosophy or political economics.