Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit • Hacker News Board

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#211

Post by drdeadringer » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 6:21 AM UTC

jdhn wrote: post #110

bdowling wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one of the positions was actually only posted for someone internally This is extremely common. A company can't allow for nepotism or favoritism, so it requires a public posting for any open position. Qualified external applicants see the posting and apply. The managers hire the internal candidate they wanted to hire anyway. It's all a huge waste of everyone's time. I'd bet that a large percentage of job postings ar…

This just happened to me. Recruiter reached out, asked for my resume because he had a job that looked good. I gave it to him, and 2 days later he called back saying that while they liked me, they were going with an internal candidate. Why bother with the whole charade if you're going to go with an internal person anyways?

> Why bother with the whole charade if you're going to go with an internal person anyways?

My understanding is providing a nice song and dance for legal reasons.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#212

Post by franczesko » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 6:44 AM UTC

bdowling wrote: post #101

lvspiff wrote: post #76

After reading the article one thing that struck me was the " internal candidates who were rejected after interviewing with the hiring manager were half as likely to exit as those rejected earlier in the process." Working at a fortune 100 top 10 company I've applied for multiple higher level positions after 5 years and multiple high marks on my reviews and not gotten 1 recruiter call. I did get with one recruiter and…

> one of the positions was actually only posted for someone internally This is extremely common. A company can't allow for nepotism or favoritism, so it requires a public posting for any open position. Qualified external applicants see the posting and apply. The managers hire the internal candidate they wanted to hire anyway. It's all a huge waste of everyone's time. I'd bet that a large percentage of job postings ar…

"The managers hire the internal candidate they wanted to hire anyway"

I was surprised how common that is. I've seen that dozens of times happening at Amazon (also for keeping external contractors, when the whole teams fled; the whole hiring process is pretty much bs btw)

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#213

Post by Kunigaikstis » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 7:01 AM UTC

bartread wrote: post #203

lvspiff wrote: post #76

After reading the article one thing that struck me was the " internal candidates who were rejected after interviewing with the hiring manager were half as likely to exit as those rejected earlier in the process." Working at a fortune 100 top 10 company I've applied for multiple higher level positions after 5 years and multiple high marks on my reviews and not gotten 1 recruiter call. I did get with one recruiter and…

This is giving me flashbacks. Years ago I applied for a C-level position at a company I worked for, somewhat to my surprise sailed through the interview process, and was officially offered the job. A few days later the CEO stopped by for a chat and told me they weren't going to offer me the job. He seemed surprised when I told him I'd already been offered it despite that everyone involved in the process had met and a…

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience. I bet everyone would get shaken up after getting an opportunity like that taken away, AFTER it was already confirmed that you're getting it.

One thing I'd like to touch upon is you saying that it cost you 5-7 years of your career. Is that really the case, though? Hear me out. I've been employed in a couple of workplaces where I've had similar experiences: employer dangling a shiny thing in front of me in the shape of a promise. "You're nearly there, it'll come soon enough. You just have to work hard." As you can imagine, the shiny thing never reached the palm of my hand. The first time it happened, I worked insanely hard with my rose-tinted glasses on. Took me a while to realise that I'm wasting my time. Once I made the decision to leave in search for better things, I was well equipped to jump higher than before. I already had the skill set AND the internal bullshit detector was calibrated. The second time it happened, I didn't waste any time. Jumped ship, got employed at, what I consider, a dream job.

The point I'm getting at is that you never truly waste time unless you're coasting. The experiences you've had add up to the person (professionally and personally) you are now. It might've taken you longer to achieve what you've set out to do but you got there in the end. You must be happier that you're the CTO at the company you're in now rather than the one you mentioned anyway, right?

The ol' cliché "the journey is the best part."

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#214

Post by alblue » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 7:22 AM UTC

I was working for a FAANG company and had negotiated internally with another department for a job which I would have been perfect for.

My management chain veto’d the transfer, which was the day I decided to quit. I started looking for opportunities outside that company, and within six months had moved on to a job with significantly more responsibility than my original or other routes within the FAANG.

Companies that prevent internal transfer turn them into external transfers.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#215

Post by ikr678 » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 10:33 AM UTC

couchridr wrote: post #183

tw04 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue the biggest hurdle isn't even what you like or dislike, it's that when someone gets used to you being in a given position, that's all they see in you. I actually had that happen at one point in my career, kept getting an "I don't think you're ready". When I finally told them I'm leaving if it doesn't happen, they did the right thing. Afterwards I got a lot of "I'm sorry I pushed back, I couldn't see you in…

That’s a great point. I have seen secretaries take training after hours to get certificates and degrees. When finished they apply locally and perform well, since they already had an idea what the job is. Some employees who have known the person in the old role find it hard to treat the colleague equitably. In that situation sometimes the best way forward is to take the new credential to a place where no one knew you…

I worked briefly for a large grocery chain that had a policy of promoting to management internally where possible. However, accepting a management role meant you had to change stores, to break those collegial relationships and establish you with authority somewhere fresh.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#216

Post by thinkharderdev » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 10:52 AM UTC

ResearchCode wrote: post #177

thinkharderdev wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of it is "hiring friends" vs just hiring someone you have better information about? A lot of people interview exceptionally well but it's always something of a crapshoot how well they will do in the actual job. But for an internal candidate you should have a lot better information on how well they performed in other roles. You can have actual frank conversations with their managers/coworkers instead of getti…

And full-on nepotism is known to be bad. My bet is that blind recruits would perform just as well or better as the family and friends of the recruiting manager would if you'd run the experiment.

That may well be true, but I would not necessarily equate "hiring internal candidates" with "hiring family and friends".

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#217

Post by theshadowknows » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 12:14 PM UTC

lvspiff wrote: post #76

After reading the article one thing that struck me was the " internal candidates who were rejected after interviewing with the hiring manager were half as likely to exit as those rejected earlier in the process." Working at a fortune 100 top 10 company I've applied for multiple higher level positions after 5 years and multiple high marks on my reviews and not gotten 1 recruiter call. I did get with one recruiter and…

It’s the same where I am. We’re a fortune 4 and the number of people who create jobs for their friends is outrageous.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#218

Post by jhart99 » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 12:54 PM UTC

actually_a_dog wrote: post #208

908B64B197 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's funny is when it backfires. ie, there's an alumni who now works at a top 5 lab in the field and is now looking for an opportunity to move back to his hometown (for whatever reasons). Job description was obviously written with someone within the institution in mind, but then this person shows up.

I wish I remembered where I read this so I didn't have to post it unsourced and lacking so many details, but I heard about something exactly like this happening: some government agency conducted a search with a tailor-made job description, intending to hire an internal candidate. Along comes an external candidate who also happens to tick all the boxes, but also has slightly more experience with one of the skills. Sin…

I have been that external candidate. I saw a random job on USAjobs a few years ago that really seemed to fit all of my experience so I figured I would apply for the heck of it. Within a few hours the listing was withdrawn. Weird. Then the same thing popped up again and again over the next couple of weeks and I would apply and it was immediately withdrawn again.

Good to know what was really going with that now.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#219

Post by n4kana » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 1:28 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #195

yaacov wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can’t get promoted internally, try getting promoted externally :)

As someone who has never been promoted internally, and has been promoted externally on about half my new roles , I can tell you that taking a job elsewhere is the easier path. I wonder if anyone with success getting promoted internally can chime in on what are some good tactics/resources?

This may not be helpful in the context of Fortune 500 companies, but here it goes. I started at my current small company as a designer in 2011 with minimal formal training and a couple of years of self-taught experience. In the past ten years, I’ve been proposed to Sr. Designer, Consultant, and now Sr. Consultant. Moving from $10/hr to $95k/year in the process. The line of work is AV consulting and programming for commercial architecture.

Let me contrast this with my job experience immediately preceding this, circa 2007 to 2011. I worked as an IT Manager at a University Law School. I started as a student help desk and eventually managed the AV systems in the classrooms. I couldn’t get promoted because it was part of a sprawling organization with super rigid job roles. I’d get in trouble for going above and beyond my job role. I wanted better pay at one point, so I applied for the tiniest move-up at a different school on campus and made it through a bunch of interviews until I met with the CIO of that school. She figuratively spit on my resume and told me to get fucked. I swear that she had a chat with the CIO of the law school, and they plotted her performance with me.

My educational background is a BA in music, so I don’t have rock star credentials. Well…I have very modest rock music credentials, but hiring managers don’t give a shit.

So what happened with my current job? It’s a small company. 10-20 people for most of the time I was there. Everything that pissed off the university delights the small business. I was able to wear new hats and jump into little side projects and demonstrate the value of my intelligence and enthusiasm. Also, I can’t overstate this; I work for the best boss I can imagine. She assumes the best in everyone and has a mental growth trajectory for all that isn’t marred by fuck ups. She sees the mistakes as learning, as they should be.

I’m far enough along in my line of work where I can see that I’d need to change companies if I wanted a quick and easy promotion or a 20% raise. However, I can build/grow the position I’m in. My ambitions are more tied up in my family and personal wellness and growth lately.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#220

Post by S4M4R4T1N » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

I applied for an internal transfer to product management at a FAANG after a part time rotation for 6 months and interview prepping with PMs throughout. I was rejected without any feedback and told to find a full time 6 month rotation before trying again. But convincing your manager to pay for you when you won’t be doing your job for 6 months is a very difficult sell. And there’s no guarantee you will get the job if your performance is strong since you still need to pass the interviews.

I applied out and had multiple offers a couple months later. It’s a shame really, wanted to stay and felt I had a lot more to contribute and learn but was concerned that I would just stagnate in the interim.