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How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

economist.com

471–480 of 1001 posts

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#471

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

Anecdotally, in the startup where I worked there was one summer in 2017 when 3 white women (a significant percent of the women in the office at the time) all suddenly came out as non-binary and asked to be called they/them. If that's not some kind of freaky bandwagon thing going on then I don't know what is. It was like a competition to see who could get the most oppression points or something. Now I'm in a different…

It's appalling how this comment is not being flagged.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#472

More weird is that Merican Wokeness is replacing *ness in other countries. Finnish has only one personal pronoun for all sexes, but Woke Finns add American Pronouns to their twitter pages.

I have a friend in Europe who informed me matter-of-fact that American corporate explicitly asked them to sport pronouns in their social media profiles. Or else I suppose.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the answer to your question is actually answered in your first paragraph. In the same way that you believe all Christians shouldn’t be judged by those who haven’t “practiced what they’ve preached”, consider that your understanding of “woke” people might be tainted by the fact that whatever media you are consuming might be focusing on the ones who also don’t practice what they preach. In other words, any movem…

But the core principles of being woke require ruthlessness (“silence is violence”, etc).

I think in some cases silence is violence. For example, the silence of ones witnessing co workers when a woman tries to report being sexually harassed in her workplace. Like if a woman describes witnesses to her being groped by a co worker, and all the witnesses just shrug and say nothing to defend her, that workplace has in effect allowed sexual harassment to occur and condones continued harassment of women.

That being said I do think it’s dumb for putting ones pronouns or whatever. But I think when we paint “wokeness” with this extremely broad brush we’re just doing the same bullshit that we’re accusing “wokeness” of doing.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#474
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In English, we often use the word Latin with no gender suffix (as in the term Latin Americans). As I understand, Latinx is not an attempt to be gender-neutral but gender-inclusive and language-inclusive (as Latin lacks the gender suffix used in Spanish and Portuguese, and Latino/a excludes French-speaking Haitians). Hispanic is also gender-neutral, and is probably what most people intend when they say Latin or Latino…

> Latino/a excludes French-speaking Haitians The vast majority of Haitians don’t speak French, but if they did, why would “Latino” exclude them? French is a Latin-derived language as much as Spanish and Portuguese are, and “latino” is a substring of the word for “Latin American” in all three languages (Latinoaméricain, in the case of French).

Correct, the majority speak Haitian Creole, though that is a language derived in part from French. I don't want to debate whether Creole-speaking and French-speaking Haitians should be considered Latin, only point out that many people do consider them Latin, since Hispanola is part of Latin America.

French typically uses no suffix for masculine words and a -e suffix for feminine words. I am not a fluent French speaker, nor an expert in French etymology, but it is my understanding that Latino and Latina are words borrowed from Spanish (or arguably from American English), and are not originally French words themselves. Latinoaméricain(e) is also derived from Spanish (latinoamericano).

I'm love learning new things about language, so feel free to teach me something new if I have misunderstood something.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#475
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say Gringx instead of Gringo? Or afficionadx instead of afficionado? Let the Latin language people decide and not delegate to white commissars.

> Let the Latin language people decide and not delegate to white commissars. Latins (later known as Romans) were white, though. So their commissars would be white, too.

> Latins (later known as Romans) were white

It's more complicated than that: https://acoup.blog/2021/07/23/collections-the-queens-latin-o...

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've nailed it. Analysis of social movements often doesn't take the intent of the ruling class into account nearly enough, and for good reason - part of their program is to deflect attention away from themselves and make it look organic.

> part of their program Who's they? Name names.

Tavistok Institute, other tax exempt foundations used as cover for agendas by the oligarchs, etc.

For a more concrete example of this type of influence, I often refer to the Norman Dodd interview. Norman Dodd was the chief investigator for the 1953 Special Committe on Tax Exempt Foundations (aka the Reece Committee). During his investigation he sent a research assistant Catherine Casey to analyze the minutes of the foundations. Apparently Norman thought she would be good to send because she was not sympathetic to the investigation, and was generally defensive of the tax exempt foundations. After actually spot-reading the minutes though, apparently it shook her so badly that she was never able to return to practicing law, and Carroll Reece had to tuck her away in a job at the FTC, and Norman Dodd says she ultimately lost her mind as a result of what she discovered. (sorry for my poorly done quick transcription)

"... finally of course the war is over. At that time their interest shifts over to preventing what they call a reversion of life in the United States to what it was prior to 1914 when WW1 broke out. And they arrive at that point, they come to the conclusion that to prevent a reversion we must control education in the United States, and they realize that's a pretty big task. To them it is too big for them alone, so they approach the Rockefeller foundation, with a suggestion that; that portion of education which could be considered domestic, be handled by the Rockefeller foundation and that portion which is international should be handled by the endowment, and they then decide that the key to the success of these two operations lay in the alteration of the teaching of American history, so they approach four of the then most prominent teachers of American history in the country, people like Charles and Mary Bird. Their suggestion to them is will they alter the manner in which they present this subject and they get turned down flat. So they then decide it is necessary for them to do as they say, "build our own stable of historians". And then they approach the Gugenheim foundation which specializes in fellowships, and say "when we find young men in the process of studying for doctorates in the field of American history, and we feel they are the right caliber, will you grant them fellowships on our say so?" and the answer is yes. So under that condition, eventually they assemble 20, and they take this 20 potential teachers of American history, to London, and there they are briefed into what is expected of them, when as and if they secure appointments in keeping with the doctorates they will have earned. That group of 20 historians ultimately becomes the nucleus of the American Historical Association, and towards the end of the 1920's, the endowment grants to the American Historical Assocation, 400,000 for a study of our history in a manner which points to, what can this country look forward to in the future. That culminates in a 7 volume book study, the last volume of which is of course in essence a summary of the contents of the other 6, and the essence of the last volume is "The future of this country belongs to collectivism adminsitered with characteristic American efficiency."..."

So what I posit is that "wokeism", more than just a divide and conquer tool, is something that enables the further shifting of the overton window over time towards collectivism.

Now understand that the very article itself eminates from a publication with heavy connections to this same kind of subtle influence and control. I find it quite fascinating when viewing sources like the Economist with this sort of scrutiny the kind of insight that can be elucidated simply by trying to understand what they aren't saying and what they are trying to hide, or how they are trying to influence things.

https://youtu.be/YUYCBfmIcHM?t=1506

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#477
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm curious what any possible alternatives might be to the practical problems "wokeness" tries to present itself as a solution to. The obvious solution is meritocracy and race/sex blindness. That's the world I wish to live in - non-discrimination & equality of opportunity, not "positive" discrimination (it's always positive for someone ) and (enforced) equality of outcome. But the Woke Left has been quite hostile t…

This is something I genuinely am curious about: how do you get equality of opportunity without first getting equality of outcome in a system where money opens doors and inheritance exists? Just-freed black people started with nothing when white slave owners had farms to pass onto their children. If (I think it is) obvious that wealth provides more opportunity, there’s no way for black people to ever have equal opport…

This is wrong on so many levels but I don't blame you as it's the false narrative that's most pervasive in most media.

First of all, "starts with nothing" isn't specific to black population. Many (most?) immigrants also start with nothing, yet often outperform locals (including whites) (the important question that almost noone is asking, is why?). Among those are Nigerians, so clearly "because they're not black" isn't the correct answer.

Your question already contains the "correct" (IMO) answer, which is: help poor people. To the extent that poverty correlates to being black (or any other categorical characteristic), both solutions are equivalent, except that mine is (1) non-discriminatory (e.g. it helps white homeless people as well), (2) self-correcting (when "racial equality of outcome" is reached and poverty is no longer correlated with skin color, my solution will continue to do "good"), and (3) non-wasteful (why would society spend any amount of resources helping e.g. Obama's daughters, who are by "inheritance" (of political connections) some of the most privileged people on this planet?).

Edit: I might have been too focused on the "race" part of your comment. If you're wondering about inherited inequality in general, well, yeah, that's one of the paradoxes of meritocracy & similar concepts, e.g. assortative mating - the end (stable) state is a society ruled by the (hereditary) "intelligent" class. But I think that's unlikely to happen naturally because there seems to be quite a lot of genetic variation in intelligence (and other traits our society treats as "superior", e.g. height, beauty, etc.); if anything, that's more likely to happen because of genetic manipulation/embryo selection, which doesn't exactly require a meritocratic society...

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? Pronouns have never been "optional" for casual conversation. You're saying you now feel, I guess, compelled to declare them or something? Or are you mad that people expect you to use pronouns they want you to use? What's the beef here? This kinda sounds like knee-jerk conservatism. It's different and new and forces you to learn new habits (true), and therefore it's bad and an erosion of civil socie…

Specifically I meant specifying your own preferred gender pronouns in certain contexts. When enough of your peers do it, it feels downright strange to not do it even if you don't imagine anyone would have any problem deducing your gender and you wouldn't feel offended if they did happen to use the wrong gender for you. Of course it is completely fine for people to share preferred prounouns. But as pg has said the pro…

> When enough of your peers do it, it feels downright strange to not do it

Really? Plenty of my friends on social media and a few work colleagues state their pronouns, but I've never even remotely felt that I need to.

Is it perhaps that you are quite suggestible?

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#479
post #7

I'm glad that the Economist points out at the end that 'wokeness' has become a favorite of business, and the reason is pretty obvious, as a movement it's self-defeating because all identitarian politics eventually ends in infighting, with its subjective, choice and preference based worldview it's actually ill-equipped to move anything. It might exist in academia or PR departments or journalism or facebook pages and t…

What is the long term plan here? The infighting is at an ever increased risk of leaking into real world and real violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#480
post #462
post #340

As a christian I believe in mercy and grace. And yes, many of us 'believers' have not practised what we preached. Many of us do try however not to be hypocrites. Here's my question. Where is mercy and grace in the midst of wokeness? I want you to believe my christian message but I will not force you to do so. I don't want to introduce laws to force you to believe what I believe. I don't want you to lose your job beca…

Is there an example you have in mind? That is, an example of a dissenting view point being treated ruthlessly?

I recall a researcher who lost his job for publishing research that violence on black lives by police was only covered by the media when the media understood them as sympathetic victims and so a successful strategy is to intentionally play up the helplessness of being violenced upon as opposed to militant resistance and cooperative resistance. I believe the rage about it at the time was more or less how dare this person try to finger waggle how black people can effectively protest. But the study itself was fairly milquetoast.
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