How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life? • Hacker News Board

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#281

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 9:18 AM UTC

golergka wrote: post #188

hnbad wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ignore the American political spectrum for a hot minute and get down to the core of it, a practical definition of "left" and "right" is "no hierarchy" vs "hierarchy". This holds true in economics as well as social issues: Racism is a system of hierarchy where one race is inherently good and normal and others are deviations from that, or at least every race is good or bad in some ways and there is an implied va…

> practical definition of "left" and "right" is "no hierarchy" vs "hierarchy" Absolutely not: it's the left that's usually the favor of giving more power to the most oppressive and monopolic hierarchy there is, the government, while the right is fighting to dismantle it.

And how is that working in Texas?

The right doesn't want to dismantle government at all. It wants to own it.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#282

Post by cgrealy » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 9:20 AM UTC

notahacker wrote: post #229

cgrealy wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, but it causes ambiguity. “The politician made a statement to the press. They were shocked” Who does “they” refer to there?

Exactly the same amount of ambiguity as "The politician addressed Other Male Politician. He was shocked"...

Yeah, but there’s no good solution there. If you use a pronoun that can apply to multiple subjects or objects in a sentence, it will always be ambiguous.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#283

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 9:20 AM UTC

hnbad wrote: post #199

noptd wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and I'm concerned about the divide and conquer-type of impact it's having in societal discourse. This effect seems way too convenient (and beneficial) for the ruling class, and in that respect, I'm afraid academia may be inadvertantly working against the common interest of the working classes by pushing these worldviews.

It's called recuperation and it doesn't even require nefarious intent. These days anti-capitalism is literally sold as a commodity. Anti-consumerism has become a consumer identity. While this helps deradicalization by diverting the radical energy away from actual causes towards consumption, it also tends to make a good profit. The problem isn't the worldviews. The problem is that you can't fight capitalism through co…

"That anger dollar, that's a big dollar"

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#284

Post by lwhi » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 9:21 AM UTC

andy_ppp wrote: post #221

SunlightEdge wrote: post #109

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

I understand this might get downvoted and while I agree with the parent I also blame the contraceptive pill, dysregulation of hormone systems (various reasons), environmental toxins and the general malleability of people when it comes to sexuality at very young ages and for reasons we don’t understand. In my father’s generation the vast majority of men by the time they were 25 years old could grown thick beards now I…

It's dangerous to dismiss transgenderism to be the result of psychological mishaps caused by environmental mishaps.

You're effectively presenting a transgender person as a second class person, or a mistake.

You're also aligning the ability to grow a beard with being a 1st class citizen.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#285

Post by artifact_44 » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 9:21 AM UTC

A better question is how did common decency and empathy for the experience of other people get reduced to the label of "wokeness"?

Oh right... It's the ongoing assault of the conservative patriarchy on the public discourse.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#286

Post by shtps » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 9:21 AM UTC

joconde wrote: post #266

mopsi wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not the whole story. Kids are also very malleable, open to peer pressure and easily assume identities that earn them acceptance by their peers.

Exactly. Transphobia often leads to trauma after getting ostracized by one's peers. I've never seen evidence of "wokeness" being nearly as nasty. You don't get bullied or singled out for not being trans.

If I say I'm hetero and only date biologically born women, wouldn't I be considered transphobic and be ostracized by the woke community?

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#287

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 9:23 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #135

invalidOrTaken wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To an extent left and right are asymmetrical---leftist groups tend to be groups organized around being leftist as their main purpose, while "rightist" groups (churches, police unions, gun enthusiasts) tend to be rightist incidentally . Neo Nazis feel like the exception that proves the rule.

[flagged]

Seeing crap like this on Twitter is bad enough, can we please keep it off HN? Thanks.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#288

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 9:24 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #167

SunlightEdge wrote: post #109

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

> I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK No, there hasn't. You've been lied to. There was no treatment for trans children (in the UK). Then a clinic opened up. We went from zero trans boys to some trans boys. Anti trans campaigners misuse percentages to show an "alarming" rise, when in fact we've simply gone from "none" to "some".

[deleted]

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#289

Post by pseudalopex » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 9:26 AM UTC

narrator wrote: post #268

SunlightEdge wrote: post #109

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

If you want to go deep down the rabbit hole here, break your brain, probably ruin your career and seriously damage your ability to interact with woke culture ever again, you can listen to an interview with the author of the book, "The Transgender Industrial Complex" in which the author alleges with copious documentation that the transgender movement is complete astroturf. He did deep research to discover where the tr…

Cultures through history had genders we would call transgender.[1]

Your source's references include "How The Jews Of Weimar Germany Ensured The Rise Of National Socialism" and "Plandemic Documentary: The Hidden Agenda Behind Covid-19".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#290

Post by shtps » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 9:27 AM UTC

lwhi wrote: post #284

andy_ppp wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand this might get downvoted and while I agree with the parent I also blame the contraceptive pill, dysregulation of hormone systems (various reasons), environmental toxins and the general malleability of people when it comes to sexuality at very young ages and for reasons we don’t understand. In my father’s generation the vast majority of men by the time they were 25 years old could grown thick beards now I…

It's dangerous to dismiss transgenderism to be the result of psychological mishaps caused by environmental mishaps. You're effectively presenting a transgender person as a second class person, or a mistake. You're also aligning the ability to grow a beard with being a 1st class citizen.

It is equally dangerous to ignore environmental factors. We also know that male fertility is on a sharp decline but don't know why, this may be related and should be investigated.