Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's exactly what the parent comment said, though, isn't it? Increase from none to some is indeed massive.
No, the parent said that the numbers of trans people have increased. That's not true. The numbers of trans people able to get treatment is the thing that increased. We went from not counting, to counting. So we didn't increase the number of trans people, we just started counting the trans people that always existed.
How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
251–260 of 1001 posts
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#252On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…
I'm expecting a pretty harsh backlash against all this gender politics at some point. I'm not sure when or how it will manifest, but even some of my LGB friends privately tell me they think it's gone too far. For the most part, though, they are too afraid to say anything in public because they don't want to get attacked and possibly lose their jobs over it. It's clear that the gender radicals have wielded online bully tactics to gain full control over the range of acceptable discourse.
LGBT are often portrayed as some kind of monolithic entity in mainstream media, but the reality is that there's a lot of ideological tension in the mix between the cis and trans people. The only place I see these tensions spilling into the open is in the UK, where the LGB Alliance and Stonewall organizations are at odds. Wondering when the same will happen in the US.
Let me lay out the tension for those who may not be familiar. On the one side you have LGB people who mostly say their sexuality is immutable and based on attraction to specific sexes. "Baby, I was born this way" in the words of Lady Gaga. As an example, maybe you're a lesbian which means a woman who is attracted to other women; for most of history this was understood to mean a person of the female sex attracted to another person of the female sex. Meanwhile you have trans activists trying to stretch the meaning of words like "man" and "woman" to the point that they don't really mean anything anymore. Anybody can be a woman if that's how they identify today, which has the effect of broadening what it means to be a lesbian in a way that some lesbians may not agree with. The status quo today is that if you're a lesbian and not willing to include the "female penis" in your sexual orientation, you're at risk of being called a TERF/transphobe. This seems like an irreconcilable difference of views.
Despite what you might think if you've read this far, I do not hate trans people. I have sympathy for them and whatever lack of self-acceptance has led them into their current path. I make an effort to use preferred pronouns and be respectful to those I work with. But I'm also extremely concerned about what the collateral damage to LGB people will be when Republicans capitalize on woke extremism at the ballot box.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#253On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…
Broad acknowledgement (though there remains some sharp and often violent denial, so while better than the best the current situation isn’t at the limit of this) that gender identity can differ from socially ascribed gender and that such a difference is cause for realigning socially ascribed gender to gender identity means that people whose gender identity differs from their socially ascribed gender both are likely to have:
(1) a framework for understanding the source of their discomfort that would not exist absent the degree of acceptance, and
(2) a license to identify their understanding of the source of their discomfort to others that woud not exist without the degree of acceptance, and
(3) a hope of relief that would not exist without the social norm of realigning ascribed gender to match gender identity.
Naturally, this means that more people aren’t just going to keep quiet and attempt to fit into the box society has assigned them at whatever pain it takes, as would previously have been the case because there was no visible alternative.
> but it was also a time when society encouraged the view of everyone being unique and mysterious and don't put labels on things.
I'm glad, for your sake, that you felt like this about society, but I can assure you that at no time that any living person grew up was it the case; and, particularly, the labels put on those who failed to outwardly conform to gender norms tended to be quite harsh.
> I appreciate it’s a bit of a stretch but in some ways it does feel now in society there is a growing pressure to box people’s identities in more.
That’s, literally, the opposite of the case.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
People on this forum/website might not like it but you're basically dead on. Everyone can see this is what's happening. Outside of this bubble, normal people see it. Our enemies abroad see it. The only people trying to suppress us talking about it are the people trying to inflict it upon us.
Well feminization is the completely wrong word for one thing, since being feminine is totally A-OK and not anything negative. Ain't nothin' wrong with flowers and dresses and whatnot even if people on this website might not like it!
If you don't believe me, flip it around and think about how a woman would feel if someone told them they act like a man. Most would not take kindly to it.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#255Labelling people based on sexuality, gender identity, race, religion is just… arbitrary. Why not label people based on their IQ? If I knew people’s IQ I would simply ignore everyone below mine and only talk to my peers. “Hello, I’m John. I’m IQ140” “Hi John, I’m Mohammed, I’m IQ145” Instatnt friendship. “Hello John, I’m Peter, IQ90.” “bye Peter” I think sorting and discriminating on IQ is the only way to build some f…
Also, IQ is fundamentally flawed. Perhaps your innate abilities (and acquired prejudiced) aren't a substitute for following contemporary research on intelligence?
https://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20121218/iq-test-really-mea...
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#256I don't really see the big issue with Latinx... it seems to me an easy and correct way to refer to latinos and latinas, without saying both, or one or the other, or bringing in gender. Just like we don't have Asianas and Asianos, and we can simply say Asians. It makes less sense to add an s to Latin because Latins refers to something completely different already. Language is constantly changing. As long as references…
Masculine plural is used as gender neutral for Spanish. Latinos already refers to both genders.
Even fringe social groups that disagree with using the masculine for neutral terms (which are already a huge minority, since grammatical gender is everywhere in Spanish and it doesn't imply anything -a chair is female and a wall is make) Ignore the x. They would use the e for neutral (latine), an @ symbol in writing, or just use the long form (Latinos y Latinas).
The x is an American invention that is unknown in the culture it tries to adapt and also not pronounceable in that language.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#257On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…
Disclaimer - personally, I'm sceptical about the concept and scientific grounds behind transgenderism and I expect my comment to be downvoted.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
> part of their program Who's they? Name names.
He already said -the ruling class. The specific names aren't irrelevant since they change regularly...but the dynamic (divide and conquer) doesn't appear to.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#259I don't really see the big issue with Latinx... it seems to me an easy and correct way to refer to latinos and latinas, without saying both, or one or the other, or bringing in gender. Just like we don't have Asianas and Asianos, and we can simply say Asians. It makes less sense to add an s to Latin because Latins refers to something completely different already. Language is constantly changing. As long as references…
I see two issues in Spanish, one in English, and two in general.
The only viable way to read this word in Spanish would be /latinks/, and it's against the language's phonotactics. So if you must replace the gender mark with something else, you'd need to use a vowel (cue to "Latines").
It is not necessary though, simply because grammatical gender is not social gender. There are a thousand ways to conceal the gender of someone in Spanish - refer to "la persona" (always feminine, no matter if you're referring to a man), plurify (the plural will take the masculine for mixed groups), so goes on. Or even, you know, use the default grammatical masculine, like the RAE recommends? Granted the RAE is a bunch of pedants but they're spot on in this case.
In English it sounds even more spurious. There's "Latin" already, why the hell are you adding a gender mark that doesn't exist in the language and then replacing it with yet another?
While this, one of the general issues I see is that we Latin Americans don't really identify ourselves by this sort of catch-all label. We have a bunch of local identities - using an equivalent for "the other side", calling us "Latins" (with -o, -a, -x or whatever) is like talking about the ethnic Germanic culture of Canada, Suriname, Jamaica, USA and Belize, as if they had a lot to do with each other.
The other issue I see is related to the above: who are the people using that word to identify themselves? Dunno about you, but I think they're just a bunch of Americans conflating heritage with identity. Every time I see someone claiming to be "latino" on the internet, I'm almost tempted to say "you are not one of us, stop lying" because of that. It's the same deal as the "Italians" from New York, or the "Irish" from who cares.
Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're attacking a straw man of your own invention here. The Economist has devoted pages and pages to the Capitol attack, the COVID pandemic, climate change, social media, abortion rights etc. I find it kind of sad that the US is so polarized that everything (like the Economist) that doesn't fit neatly into Democrat/left vs Republican/right is nonetheless forcibly pigeonholed into one of the two camps, with absurd re…
I have read the Economist many times, although not in the last 5 years. And I would not call it "liberal" at all. I stopped because of the bias. Did the other topics that the Economist "devoted pages and pages to" get as much uptake here as this one?