How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life? • Hacker News Board

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#211

Post by bsksi » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 8:29 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #195

blub wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This book’s trying to explain why this is happening for girls: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreversible_Damage

That book relies on the concept of ROGD, which is something that doesn't exist. Anybody pushing ROGD, or supporting other people who push ROGD, is anti-science and anti-fact. You should consider why you feel comfortable pushing something that's obviously bollocks, just because it supports your anti-trans activism. https://www.caaps.co/rogd-statement

Which one of those psychological associations would have the balls to go against the flow if they felt like it was necessary?

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#212

Post by concordDance » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 8:29 AM UTC

mjburgess wrote: post #150

TameAntelope wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what any possible alternatives might be to the practical problems "wokeness" tries to present itself as a solution to. I don't think the problem of racism and sexism (two classic "woke" topics) are "Left" problems, which is why it strikes me as odd that I don't see ideas about how to deal with them coming from everyone, beyond a straight denial they exist, or that it's actually the fault of the folks expe…

The most virulent forms of racism are a symptom of material conditions, eg., that poor black people live uniformly in one area, and rich white people in another. This creates a competition for local resources, including demands on police time and attention. This competition reporduces racism, in that it is very hard not to have racism when "looking out for one's own" is a racial matter. What we have in Wokeism is a p…

> What we have in Wokeism is a pseudo-politics, in that, it make no material demands.

A plain reading of this seems false. Wokism definitely makes demands.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#213

Post by luckylion » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 8:31 AM UTC

spats1990 wrote: post #64

badRNG wrote: post #37

It seems like this question could be asked at any period of social conflict historically in the West. How did ideas that were once extremely radical like women's equality in the social sphere (to include holding office and suffrage), desegregation, slavery abolition, and many more work their way from the intelligensia (academics, philosophers) to the masses? How did "Marxism" jump from academia to workers in the late…

Yeah, I tend to think "woke" as a sneer word is just the new "PC/politically correct" as a sneer word. Corporations wouldn't be engaging in this kind of token support for progressive issues if they did not believe such issues were broadly popular. Such organizations rarely do anything for free. The token support is a reflection of something in the culture. Most of the "backlash" to "woke stuff" is a working-through o…

> Most of the "backlash" to "woke stuff" is a working-through of the cognitive dissonance this notion brings for certain people/organizations. They cannot believe that such ideas can have even token support among the broader public.

But that's the thing: a lot of the woke stuff isn't publicly supported. Latinos don't care for "Latinx" [1]. Enforcing more gender-speech in Germany has decreased the support in the general population, also among women. [2]

It's the media that is going crazy over it and really, really wants it. And the politicians are willingly following. The electorate does not.

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in...

[2] https://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/grosse-mehrh...

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#214

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 8:31 AM UTC

Epa095 wrote: post #149

This is one of those articles which kind of pretends to be neutral, but are still so oppinionated that I don't know if I ended up smarter or dumber after reading it :-/

It's a distraction piece:

Is the important issue in the US the enraged far right mob that attacked the Capitol in January, and continues to deny the legitimacy of elections, and plans further violence? Is it the actual COVID pandemic? Is it the science denial that accompanies the pandemic and has people turning to unproven horse-dewormer over proven vaccines? Is it the disinformation engines on social media and their weaponization by global actors? Is it the looming climate catastrophe? Is it right-wing lawmakers attempts to remove women's rights over their own bodies, and limit the right to vote and thereby "manage" democracy?

No, we need to pay our attention to lefty-wokies instead! They're the enemy of the day! Ignore your lying eyes about where these issues are coming from, pretend that there's an issue on the left here instead!

It's a pathetic piece.

And its pathetic that it gets so much traction here.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#215

Post by comodore_ » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 8:32 AM UTC

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #201

I don't really see the big issue with Latinx... it seems to me an easy and correct way to refer to latinos and latinas, without saying both, or one or the other, or bringing in gender. Just like we don't have Asianas and Asianos, and we can simply say Asians. It makes less sense to add an s to Latin because Latins refers to something completely different already. Language is constantly changing. As long as references…

> Just like we don't have Asianas and Asianos, and we can simply say Asians.

south americans.

your comment is the embodiment of the hola, my Latinx friends meme.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#216

Post by bambataa » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 8:32 AM UTC

wisty wrote: post #25

See "concept creep" - https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2016-08154-001 Abstract: > Many of psychology's concepts have undergone semantic shifts in recent years. These conceptual changes follow a consistent trend. Concepts that refer to the negative aspects of human experience and behavior have expanded their meanings so that they now encompass a much broader range of phenomena than before. This expansion takes “horizont…

I have noticed this with “victim blaming”. I understood it to refer fairly specifically to sexual assault victims being blamed for “asking for it” by wearing a skirt or whatever.

Now I see it being used in relationship advice subreddits and agony aunt columns to basically mean “don’t dare disagree with me” when someone decides that they were the victim in some some dispute.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#217

Post by bsksi » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 8:33 AM UTC

SunlightEdge wrote: post #109

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6095578/

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#218

Post by dfgpart » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 8:33 AM UTC

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #201

I don't really see the big issue with Latinx... it seems to me an easy and correct way to refer to latinos and latinas, without saying both, or one or the other, or bringing in gender. Just like we don't have Asianas and Asianos, and we can simply say Asians. It makes less sense to add an s to Latin because Latins refers to something completely different already. Language is constantly changing. As long as references…

Would you say Gringx instead of Gringo? Or afficionadx instead of afficionado?

Let the Latin language people decide and not delegate to white commissars.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#219

Post by concordDance » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 8:37 AM UTC

rnd0 wrote: post #182

chakkepolja wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> But aren't neo Nazi's fringe and rarer than wokies? Depends on your definition. They may be rare if you only include self-identified Nazis. However, if you expand that to include members of the Far Right and general White Surpemacists then they're not only not fringe but they become as mainstream as Hannity, Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon and all of the Q-anon grifters. White supremacists -as in people who believe mo…

> White supremacists -as in people who believe most of the same thing as actual literal nazis, are by no means rare these days

The conflation of white supremacism and naziism is pretty much entirely political maneuvering. They believe very different things about the state, forms of government, gay people, culture, land use and many other things. Not to mention that only a small number of people termed white supremacists actually are (it conflates believing in racial differences (which are often not just white>everything) with believing in racial segregation with believing that the "white" ethnic group will form a better society),

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#220

Post by naturalauction » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 8:37 AM UTC

unity1001 wrote: post #90

EvilEy3 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rest of the world calls it 'manners' or 'civilized behavior'. Latinax+, Womxn is manners and civilized behavior? In actual civilized countries you'd get confused look or cuckoo sign. This insanity doesn't exist in Europe yet(thank God), but woke idiots are working hard, no worries.

"Latinax, Womxn" -> Yeah, you totally invalidated the concept of wokeness by two phrases, good job. Despite i have explicitly mentioned that some extreme arguments dont invalidate concept of civilized behavior. > In actual civilized countries you'd get confused look or cuckoo sign You wouldnt. Dont make up stuff. > This insanity doesn't exist in Europe yet(thank God) Because Europe is not US. You cant rail about othe…

> Because Europe is not US. You cant rail about others, speak hatefully about minorities, immigrants, less harass people who wear masks or other bullsh*t and expect the state not to drag you to court to persecute your ass.

All across Europe some parts of the press are happy to speak hatefully about minorities and immigrants.

See:

UK - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/the-sun-and-d...

France - https://www.france24.com/en/20200830-outrage-in-france-after...

Spain - https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/22/spanish-newspaper-...

I don’t think any of this stuff is prosecuted (or that it should be). At least the French and Spanish examples were widely condemned but I think it says a lot they were published in the first place.