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How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

economist.com

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Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#201
I don't really see the big issue with Latinx... it seems to me an easy and correct way to refer to latinos and latinas, without saying both, or one or the other, or bringing in gender.

Just like we don't have Asianas and Asianos, and we can simply say Asians. It makes less sense to add an s to Latin because Latins refers to something completely different already.

Language is constantly changing. As long as references aren't derogatory and have linguistic purpose (either due to being academically useful to be precise, concise or general, or because they're useful in colloquial speak and new words create a sense of identity), I don't see the big issue. We obviously speak very differently from 50, 100 or 200 years ago, and I'm glad for it for the most part. Not sure why we're so resistant to this particular change.

Removing acronyms because they're racist is obviously silly. But simplifying language is not. Instead of calling the Arts Department 'VAPA' (after Visual and Performing Arts) it's now simply called the 'Arts Department'. That means it should be more easily understood, and more accessible by students or parents who're not privy to navigating school systems to get their kids the best outcomes. We consistently see that certain parents are able to get their kids in the right programs, while other parents are not, and some of that relates to cultural capital which has been well studied. Acronyms probably play an extremely minor role in this cultural capital, but I don't see it as a bad move per se. (calling it racist, is)

Those were two of the key examples the article started with to explain how bad things have gotten, before jumping in how we got to this ostensibly miserable place.

There's some good stuff in the article - particularly around some hypocritical corporate wokeness in the 2nd half of the article - but mostly it comes across as very partisan, completely unwilling to assess the other sides' argument in good faith, and written to convince you of a particular viewpoint. Doesn't seem to fit into what I'm used to from the Economist.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#202
post #190
post #149

This is one of those articles which kind of pretends to be neutral, but are still so oppinionated that I don't know if I ended up smarter or dumber after reading it :-/

I agree. The author obviously considers "wokeness" stupid as hell, but hides with the thinnest veneer of neutrality.

By the same logic, a far-right person could complain about a "veneer of neutrality" in the mainstream press's coverage of, say, the Proud Boys. But that would be ridiculous.

Some things really are objectively stupid as hell.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#203

> acronyms such as vapa (Visual and Performing Arts), on the ground that they are “a symptom of white supremacy”. wait, how? Surely all cultures have at some point embraced visual and performance arts?

Was wondering that myself? Maybe it focuses exclusively on European art? (I don’t actually know this… speculating)

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#204
post #162
post #149

This is one of those articles which kind of pretends to be neutral, but are still so oppinionated that I don't know if I ended up smarter or dumber after reading it :-/

I'm really unimpressed at the economist for publishing this, which is lazy partisan flame bait that I've flagged.

I try to mention this every time I notice any major publications (WSJ, WaPo, NYT, Economist, Bloomberg, HBR) post basically trash under their main, but especially their "Opinion" channels.

I think they're trying to reckon with their ads business model not succeeding in the online world, so their editors allow these controversial pieces to exist as a means to retain viewership by appealing to some mob anger.

I also want to mention that of all the news agencies, I have consistently not felt this way from anything from the Atlantic, which is the only publication I now subscribe to, because this work is kind of nonsensical.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#205

More weird is that Merican Wokeness is replacing *ness in other countries. Finnish has only one personal pronoun for all sexes, but Woke Finns add American Pronouns to their twitter pages.

The way American values have spread all around the world and started supplanting the native values is upsetting.

Everything from commercialism and employment to attitudes towards nakedness and violence.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#206
post #24

The elite have always had a disconnected culture from the masses. Things like a taste for golf or the influence of certain clubs over high levels of government. That isn't unusual. That people from that culture then get to control the rest of a country because someone has to, and it may as well be the elites. So the cultural disconnect isn't new or a problem. The problem is that this ideology seems to be (1) heavily…

It is amusing how wokeism not being defined allows it to be just about anything. Gay and trans people have a history of being locked out of most social groups and in all recent history have lower incomes and political influence than most, yet now they are portrayed as elites because of a like to recognition higher learning. Wouldn't it be easier to admit that people confuse you and that makes you upset?

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#208
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been trying to change gender terms forever. It's nothing recent. I recall discussions about the use of the non gendered pronoun 'e' years ago. To replace she vs he.

In English I’ve understood it is common to use a singular they as a non gendered pronoun. In Swedish the newly introduced hen is in quite widespread use instead of han/hon (he/she).

It is, but it causes ambiguity.

“The politician made a statement to the press. They were shocked”

Who does “they” refer to there?

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nor is it confined to the Left: neo-Nazi groups offer some of the clearest examples of purity spirals Seems like your own linked article says it's not just a leftist thing?

To an extent left and right are asymmetrical---leftist groups tend to be groups organized around being leftist as their main purpose, while "rightist" groups (churches, police unions, gun enthusiasts) tend to be rightist incidentally . Neo Nazis feel like the exception that proves the rule.

I know some Quakers who put your "churches are rightist groups" to the lie. Not new either; read up on Public Universal Friend.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#210
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> But aren't neo Nazi's fringe and rarer than wokies? Depends on your definition. They may be rare if you only include self-identified Nazis. However, if you expand that to include members of the Far Right and general White Surpemacists then they're not only not fringe but they become as mainstream as Hannity, Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon and all of the Q-anon grifters. White supremacists -as in people who believe mo…

In online arguments I've seen people use definitions ranging all the way from "members of the National Socialist Worker's Party of 1930s and 1940s Germany" to "literally anyone talking in a loud voice" but the most practical distinction between run of the mill fascists and nazis I've seen is that nazis are fascists who also believe in the Jewish conspiracy - which describes a lot more people than most people unaware of far-right memes would probably think.

Of course that leaves the question of how you define fascism, which is a whole 'nother can of worms.

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