How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life? • Hacker News Board

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#101

Post by busterarm » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 6:47 AM UTC

unity1001 wrote: post #90

EvilEy3 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rest of the world calls it 'manners' or 'civilized behavior'. Latinax+, Womxn is manners and civilized behavior? In actual civilized countries you'd get confused look or cuckoo sign. This insanity doesn't exist in Europe yet(thank God), but woke idiots are working hard, no worries.

"Latinax, Womxn" -> Yeah, you totally invalidated the concept of wokeness by two phrases, good job. Despite i have explicitly mentioned that some extreme arguments dont invalidate concept of civilized behavior. > In actual civilized countries you'd get confused look or cuckoo sign You wouldnt. Dont make up stuff. > This insanity doesn't exist in Europe yet(thank God) Because Europe is not US. You cant rail about othe…

You obviously have never been to a football game in Europe if you think you definitively cannot be racist there.

Casual racism is global, by the way.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#102

Post by notanzaiiswear » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 6:49 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #7

I'm glad that the Economist points out at the end that 'wokeness' has become a favorite of business, and the reason is pretty obvious, as a movement it's self-defeating because all identitarian politics eventually ends in infighting, with its subjective, choice and preference based worldview it's actually ill-equipped to move anything. It might exist in academia or PR departments or journalism or facebook pages and t…

People are getting fired over those things, it is not just mindspace of silly people.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#103

Post by unity1001 » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 6:50 AM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #101

unity1001 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Latinax, Womxn" -> Yeah, you totally invalidated the concept of wokeness by two phrases, good job. Despite i have explicitly mentioned that some extreme arguments dont invalidate concept of civilized behavior. > In actual civilized countries you'd get confused look or cuckoo sign You wouldnt. Dont make up stuff. > This insanity doesn't exist in Europe yet(thank God) Because Europe is not US. You cant rail about othe…

You obviously have never been to a football game in Europe if you think you definitively cannot be racist there. Casual racism is global, by the way.

"Football"

That's not an example. And, there has been pretty strong and large persecutions of football clubs for actions which their fans did in the middle of a crowded stadium. FIFA rules - without even justice taking action, FIFA kicks the butt of such clubs whose fans go out of civilized limits.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#104

Post by busterarm » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 6:51 AM UTC

decremental wrote: post #70

serverholic wrote: post #10

I think this is the result of the gradual femininization of our culture. It started with the feminist/gender-studies types and slowly caught on. Not because people necessarily wanted to change, but cancel culture makes it so that you can't risk nonconforming. At first it was little things like switching to softer language and giving kids participation trophies so that they don't feel bad. Now it's spread to the point…

Lol they flagged it again. They overpowered the vouch to make sure you can't be seen as legitimate. You know, when the government ultimately is seen as the thing that must be stopped and the people who are willing to make a stand do. Guess who is second on that stop.

[flagged]

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#105

Post by invalidOrTaken » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 6:51 AM UTC

bengold14 wrote: post #91

nradov wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leftist movements tend to consume themselves in escalating purity spirals. https://unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a...

> Nor is it confined to the Left: neo-Nazi groups offer some of the clearest examples of purity spirals Seems like your own linked article says it's not just a leftist thing?

To an extent left and right are asymmetrical---leftist groups tend to be groups organized around being leftist as their main purpose, while "rightist" groups (churches, police unions, gun enthusiasts) tend to be rightist incidentally. Neo Nazis feel like the exception that proves the rule.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#106

Post by DaiPlusPlus » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 6:53 AM UTC

wisty wrote: post #25

See "concept creep" - https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2016-08154-001 Abstract: > Many of psychology's concepts have undergone semantic shifts in recent years. These conceptual changes follow a consistent trend. Concepts that refer to the negative aspects of human experience and behavior have expanded their meanings so that they now encompass a much broader range of phenomena than before. This expansion takes “horizont…

> I contend that the expansion primarily reflects an ever-increasing sensitivity to harm, reflecting a liberal moral agenda.

I don't feel comfortable with anyone using the term "liberal moral agenda" unironically because of culture-specific connotations: for starters, it's a very US-specific phrase which will have attached meanings that would be lost or misinterpreted by people unfamiliar with how the term "liberal" specifically relates to US political discourse - and the hugely negative (to downright toxic) connotations attached to the label "liberal moral agenda" by the reactionary right-wing - which all make conversations like these impossible to have.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#107

Post by luckylion » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 6:54 AM UTC

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #77

I noticed that when I click the thumbs-up emoji in Slack, I now have to select its skin color. That's fucking dystopian.

Be happy that you don't have to prove your skin color to Slack yet. You're currently still able to appropriate minority skin colors, but I guess we're just one white guy using a brown-skin thumbs-up ("it's literally the brown thumbs, it's the modern brown shirts") before Slack mandates skin color tests.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#108

Post by carlmr » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 6:54 AM UTC

bengold14 wrote: post #91

nradov wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leftist movements tend to consume themselves in escalating purity spirals. https://unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a...

> Nor is it confined to the Left: neo-Nazi groups offer some of the clearest examples of purity spirals Seems like your own linked article says it's not just a leftist thing?

Doesn't saying "but you can find this on the other side" imply that it's much more common on the side you're comparing to?

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#109

Post by SunlightEdge » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 6:55 AM UTC

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence to the above rise. Again we need to be careful here. Personally what I do know is that growing up I had for a time quite severe identity issues (not about gender) but it was also a time when society encouraged the view of everyone being unique and mysterious and don't put labels on things. There wasn't anyway near this current level of identity politics and wokeness. I appreciate it's a bit of a stretch but in some ways it does feel now in society there is a growing pressure to box people's identities in more. Im so glad I grew up without the internet and could just be, and be a confused kid growing up without labels.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#110

Post by TameAntelope » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 6:57 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #7

I'm glad that the Economist points out at the end that 'wokeness' has become a favorite of business, and the reason is pretty obvious, as a movement it's self-defeating because all identitarian politics eventually ends in infighting, with its subjective, choice and preference based worldview it's actually ill-equipped to move anything. It might exist in academia or PR departments or journalism or facebook pages and t…

I'm curious what any possible alternatives might be to the practical problems "wokeness" tries to present itself as a solution to.

I don't think the problem of racism and sexism (two classic "woke" topics) are "Left" problems, which is why it strikes me as odd that I don't see ideas about how to deal with them coming from everyone, beyond a straight denial they exist, or that it's actually the fault of the folks experiencing the discrimination somehow.