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Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

technical.ly

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Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind sharing where exactly in Europe is 8 weeks vacation the norm? In Austria it's 5 weeks for everyone but law and that's what most tech companies will give you as well.

I don't think there are 8 weeks, but 6 weeks? Spain has 30 days vacation if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah I’ve redone the Math in a sibling comment.

1) it was 7 and some change. Not 8w 2 ) due to a special arrangement with my employer.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#123

When I've been burned out or hated my job, I didn't take vacations, because the crushing realization that I'd have to return to work was almost worse than losing myself in the uninterrupted, repetitive, dead-eyed grind. While on vacation, I'd start thinking about the countdown to the end of the vacation. > Well, root out the real causes of burnout. I'll offer the definition that's made most sense to me. I didn't come…

"Burnout is caused by working hard at something for a long time and not having it pay off." I agree but would add "lack of hope" to that. I have no hope that my job/career will get better.

I’ll add a small insidious realization of what stress is. It’s one thing to work hard and feel tired after working hard, the causality is natural. It’s when you feel fatigue before you even start the work. Why am I tired before I even begin? That to me it’s a dead giveaway something is wrong.

How do you solve that? We mythologized grit, the strength to overcome this preemptive fatigue. But even that, is fatiguing.

Life’s a sport no matter what they say. Whoever doesn’t get tired of it, wins.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#124

> What do we do? Well, root out the real causes of burnout. If it’s not those top workplace issues, it may very well be the burn of extended, heightened stress. For employees surveyed, flexible work hours and mental health support were more popular than even a four-day work week or unlimited PTO. The point then is lots of professionals like their actual work, they just don’t like the restrictions and environment. Giv…

Unlimited PTO is crazy to me. It takes the principles of spelled-out employment terms and throws them in the trash. The "flexible hours" policy was bad enough at my last job. Wildly varying interpretations between different managers and department heads under the same roof.

Flexibility is a multiplier to the existing work environment. Flexible work hours and unlimited PTO make an already good environment better, and make bad environments miserable. Rigid rules for when you're working and when you aren't working is a great defense if your management is going to push you to work as much as they can so you should be wary when job hunting if they are "flexible", but flexiblity can be great too.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't afford to take a day off, then that's on you my friend. The people on your team can take up your slack if you let them. I work for someone just like you. He hoards all of the meetings and knowledge and "power" (for lack of a better word). When he goes on PTO, things halt when they shouldn't. Me and others on my squad can pick up the slack. But gatekeeping and knowledge-hoarding prevent us from helping ou…

>If you can't afford to take a day off, then that's on you my friend. The people on your team can take up your slack if you let them. I work for someone just like you. He hoards all of the meetings and knowledge and "power" (for lack of a better word). Lmao. Nobody else on my team can take up slack because they have literally no space on their calendar. My team is currently at half of our target headcount. Every pers…

Stop killing yourself for someone else's profit. If your team is at 50% head count, then your team should be doing 50% (or less) of its expected work.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you can't afford to take a day off, then that's on you my friend. The people on your team can take up your slack if you let them. I work for someone just like you. He hoards all of the meetings and knowledge and "power" (for lack of a better word). Lmao. Nobody else on my team can take up slack because they have literally no space on their calendar. My team is currently at half of our target headcount. Every pers…

Stop killing yourself for someone else's profit. If your team is at 50% head count, then your team should be doing 50% (or less) of its expected work.

We already are doing less than 50% of our expected work. That doesn't mean that the problems suddenly go away, and typically just makes things worse.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#127

See also The Onion : > Man Returns To Work After Vacation With Fresh, Reenergized Hatred For Job * https://www.theonion.com/man-returns-to-work-after-vacation-...

People at the office joke about the fact that when bad weather ruins their vacations, they come back happier to work.

I hate to be "that guy," but I don't understand this joke. :/

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#128

When I've been burned out or hated my job, I didn't take vacations, because the crushing realization that I'd have to return to work was almost worse than losing myself in the uninterrupted, repetitive, dead-eyed grind. While on vacation, I'd start thinking about the countdown to the end of the vacation. > Well, root out the real causes of burnout. I'll offer the definition that's made most sense to me. I didn't come…

When you say working hard, what does that mean? Not checking HN every other hour? Or working more hours per week?

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#129
post #87

I run https://4dayweek.io and during the time I spent researching companies, it blew my mind how awful the vacation policy is in some companies (especially the US) i.e. 10 days vacation shouldn't be celebrated as a benefit. Vacation isn't everything though; there have been some studies which show the positive effect of a vacation quickly disappears when work resumes. What we really need (imo) is a shorter, more focus…

Coming from a country where 4 weeks plus 11 (soon to be 12) public holidays is the legal minimum I really don't understand the US system.

When you say 4 weeks, do you mean 20 days off because there's typically 5 work days in a week or do you mean 30 days?

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#130
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlimited PTO is crazy to me. It takes the principles of spelled-out employment terms and throws them in the trash. The "flexible hours" policy was bad enough at my last job. Wildly varying interpretations between different managers and department heads under the same roof.

My last job implemented an unlimited PTO policy. In 2020, I took about 7 days off, and worked at least 20 days on weekends. With the increased responsibilities, there just wasn’t any time that was good to leave… until I left for good. It was definitely a factor in my current burnout. The funny thing was before the VCs bought the company, I had two weeks but in practice could ask the CTO for as much time as I wanted.…

Do people not just start taking forever PTO, a week or two at a time, instead of quitting?

Or take a sabbatical or maternity/paternity leave and just never come back?

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