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Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

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Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#111

Post by giantg2 »

karaterobot wrote: post #53

When I've been burned out or hated my job, I didn't take vacations, because the crushing realization that I'd have to return to work was almost worse than losing myself in the uninterrupted, repetitive, dead-eyed grind. While on vacation, I'd start thinking about the countdown to the end of the vacation. > Well, root out the real causes of burnout. I'll offer the definition that's made most sense to me. I didn't come…

"Burnout is caused by working hard at something for a long time and not having it pay off."

I agree but would add "lack of hope" to that. I have no hope that my job/career will get better.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#112

Post by rahimnathwani »

le-mark wrote: post #90
tinyhouse wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak for yourself. Sorry for being blunt, but you clearly know very little about burnout (good for you). If people say that they are burned out because of a bad manager, believe them instead of saying they don't know what they are talking about. There are many reasons for burnout. Working on things that don't pay off is just one of them.

Can confirm, recently went from a great manager who always had our backs and celebrated our successes to one who offers zero support, plenty of blame and zero recognition. I’ve been surprised how devastating it’s been.

"plenty of blame and zero recognition"

Does the amount of blame and recognition vary with the amount of effort you put in? I've seen situations like this, and seen people feel burnt out when:

1. However hard they work, they do not get blamed less or recognized more, or even

2. They are blamed more than people who contribute approximately zero. Because those people doing nothing have no output, hence nothing to be blamed for.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#113

Post by shell0x »

dopidopHN wrote: post #47
suzzer99 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. We need European-style month-long vacations in the US. And sabbaticals every few years. Also we should start looking at 36 and 32-hour workweeks. We're 20x more productive than 40 years ago, yet still work the same hours or more for pay increases that barely keep up with inflation.

As a European living in the US since a decade. It starts to impact my mental health. I went from 8 weeks / years to 4 or 5. Currently 3. Ha. I cannot recharge the same way ( meaning : travel for weeks at a time, or chill hard for 2 weeks in a row ) It’s flexible all right. But I feel like I’m always working somehow. Work is near, lurking. I’m nursing a nice little depression that I feel a road trip would cure easily.…

That sounds really bad man. I'm originally from Germany,but lived previously in Asia(Singapore/Hong Kong), New Zealand and now Australia. I never got less than 3 weeks vacation.

The US is a good environment to innovate, but it's mostly good for companies and not people.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#114

Post by jq-r »

josh2600 wrote: post #81
karaterobot wrote: post #53

When I've been burned out or hated my job, I didn't take vacations, because the crushing realization that I'd have to return to work was almost worse than losing myself in the uninterrupted, repetitive, dead-eyed grind. While on vacation, I'd start thinking about the countdown to the end of the vacation. > Well, root out the real causes of burnout. I'll offer the definition that's made most sense to me. I didn't come…

Great post. An addendum: people still burnout even when the org is succeeding (shipping products, hitting liquidity, etc.).

Oh definitely. Worked in a large company with so much money they didn't know what to do with it. But the number of experienced people leaving weekly was staggering. People would just burn out. And the management didn't give two shits about that. I wonder when this mismanagement will catch up with them as they are still growing.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#115

Post by muterad_murilax »

karaterobot wrote: post #53

When I've been burned out or hated my job, I didn't take vacations, because the crushing realization that I'd have to return to work was almost worse than losing myself in the uninterrupted, repetitive, dead-eyed grind. While on vacation, I'd start thinking about the countdown to the end of the vacation. > Well, root out the real causes of burnout. I'll offer the definition that's made most sense to me. I didn't come…

"Burnout is caused by working hard at something for a long time and not having it pay off."

That's the most work-centric definition of burnout I have ever seen.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#116

Post by shell0x »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #76
dopidopHN wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European living in the US since a decade. It starts to impact my mental health. I went from 8 weeks / years to 4 or 5. Currently 3. Ha. I cannot recharge the same way ( meaning : travel for weeks at a time, or chill hard for 2 weeks in a row ) It’s flexible all right. But I feel like I’m always working somehow. Work is near, lurking. I’m nursing a nice little depression that I feel a road trip would cure easily.…

Mind sharing where exactly in Europe is 8 weeks vacation the norm? In Austria it's 5 weeks for everyone but law and that's what most tech companies will give you as well.

I don't think there are 8 weeks, but 6 weeks? Spain has 30 days vacation if I'm not mistaken.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#117

Post by dopidopHN »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #76
dopidopHN wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European living in the US since a decade. It starts to impact my mental health. I went from 8 weeks / years to 4 or 5. Currently 3. Ha. I cannot recharge the same way ( meaning : travel for weeks at a time, or chill hard for 2 weeks in a row ) It’s flexible all right. But I feel like I’m always working somehow. Work is near, lurking. I’m nursing a nice little depression that I feel a road trip would cure easily.…

Mind sharing where exactly in Europe is 8 weeks vacation the norm? In Austria it's 5 weeks for everyone but law and that's what most tech companies will give you as well.

I’m French. 5 weeks is the minimum. Then we work 40h/week but legally we should do 35h. So that give us a extra week.

Those 6 weeks are the norm.

But it become increasingly common to ask for another week as a perk it you are a skill worker.

I my last French job I had weird hours and overtime in the weekend because of the industry I was in. It’s leads 7 and some changes weeks.

So, not 8.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#118

Post by awsthro00945 »

stuff4ben wrote: post #85
awsthro00945 wrote: post #31

Not only is it not the answer, vacation can actually be a contributor to burnout, IME. In my current role, taking PTO is a legitimate punishment . If I take a day off, there is nobody else on my team who has capacity to pick up my work in my absence. When I return from PTO, not only do I now have double the amount of work to catch up on, but I also have 15 emails from angry managers upset that I didn't get to their r…

If you can't afford to take a day off, then that's on you my friend. The people on your team can take up your slack if you let them. I work for someone just like you. He hoards all of the meetings and knowledge and "power" (for lack of a better word). When he goes on PTO, things halt when they shouldn't. Me and others on my squad can pick up the slack. But gatekeeping and knowledge-hoarding prevent us from helping ou…

>If you can't afford to take a day off, then that's on you my friend. The people on your team can take up your slack if you let them. I work for someone just like you. He hoards all of the meetings and knowledge and "power" (for lack of a better word).

Lmao. Nobody else on my team can take up slack because they have literally no space on their calendar. My team is currently at half of our target headcount. Every person is currently working 60 hour weeks and is still behind. "If I let them"? "hoarding meetings"? Please, keep your assumptions about my workstyle to yourself. I literally beg my teammates and managers to join my meetings and share the load, but nobody has the time.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#119

Post by Trasmatta »

karaterobot wrote: post #53

When I've been burned out or hated my job, I didn't take vacations, because the crushing realization that I'd have to return to work was almost worse than losing myself in the uninterrupted, repetitive, dead-eyed grind. While on vacation, I'd start thinking about the countdown to the end of the vacation. > Well, root out the real causes of burnout. I'll offer the definition that's made most sense to me. I didn't come…

> because the crushing realization that I'd have to return to work was almost worse than losing myself in the uninterrupted, repetitive, dead-eyed grind

I feel this so much. The anxiety of not working while dreading it on the horizon is often worse than the work itself.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#120

Post by verve_rat »

philmcp wrote: post #87

I run https://4dayweek.io and during the time I spent researching companies, it blew my mind how awful the vacation policy is in some companies (especially the US) i.e. 10 days vacation shouldn't be celebrated as a benefit. Vacation isn't everything though; there have been some studies which show the positive effect of a vacation quickly disappears when work resumes. What we really need (imo) is a shorter, more focus…

Coming from a country where 4 weeks plus 11 (soon to be 12) public holidays is the legal minimum I really don't understand the US system.
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