Google Chrome to remove detailed cookie and site data controls • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Chrome to remove detailed cookie and site data controls

#191

Post by BoorishBears » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 10:45 PM UTC

duskwuff wrote: post #98

BoorishBears wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I think this has actually been applied by anyone in the wild, but it'd be fun to make a site that take advantage of this You can detect developer tools being open in Chrome pretty reliably, so detect dev tools have been open then "clean up your act" before there's a chance to view anything of note

This has absolutely been used "in the wild". One particularly nasty strain of ad-block-evasion scripts would detect the developer tools being opened, and would reload the page and disable most of its features to prevent them from being analyzed.

The ad-block thing is where I first saw it, that and DRM for less-than-legal sites to prevent downloading (stops streaming if the dev console is open)

I mean more specifically taking advantage of the awkward UI to cover up your tracks on local storage, it's something that's just devious enough that if you get caught (which is not difficult) it'll be hard to explain what you were doing, and you'll be trying to explain it to technical people

Re: Google Chrome to remove detailed cookie and site data controls

#192

Post by feanaro » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 10:46 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #121

foota wrote: post #82

I don't get why people think this is a move with some agenda, most likely they just don't think enough people use the single cookie deletion functionality to warrant having it in the settings vs the dev tools.

Exactly this. All the functionality is already built into Chrome right here: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/devtools/storage/cookies/ Contrary to the headline, Chrome isn't removing the ability to do anything -- they're just removing it from the preferences interface, where I'm not sure it really ever made sense to include in the first place. Truly, editing/deleting individual cookies isn't something any regular u…

> where I'm not sure it really ever made sense to include in the first place.

So move it somewhere where it makes more sense.

> Truly, editing/deleting individual cookies isn't something any regular user ever needs to do

No true Scotsman? If the user needs to do this, they're automatically not a regular user, or what?

Anyway, hard disagree.

Re: Google Chrome to remove detailed cookie and site data controls

#193

Post by JeremyNT » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

foota wrote: post #82

I don't get why people think this is a move with some agenda, most likely they just don't think enough people use the single cookie deletion functionality to warrant having it in the settings vs the dev tools.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Make a useful feature difficult to discover, then remove it when few people discover it. The (not insignificant) current barrier for normal users to selectively remove cookies will be made even higher if you ask them to use dev tools.

One could imagine a browser vendor who made this workflow easy because they thought it was in the users' best interest. Obviously, that browser vendor is not Google.

Re: Google Chrome to remove detailed cookie and site data controls

#194

Post by kroltan » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

zamadatix wrote: post #36

kroltan wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not nearly complete enough if you want a browser. MAYBE, if you want a browsing engine / "webview".

That's exactly what Servo was/is, an embeddable browser engine. It was never aiming to build a usable reference servo browser with the engine. The packaged nightly binaries were just to demo the current state of the embeddable engine which is why they were so barebones.

Yes, you're correct, but the ancestor comments kind of implied it being a hope for browsers at large.

Bad phrasing from my part too, sorry.

Re: Google Chrome to remove detailed cookie and site data controls

#195

Post by p_j_w » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

JeremyNT wrote: post #193

foota wrote: post #82

I don't get why people think this is a move with some agenda, most likely they just don't think enough people use the single cookie deletion functionality to warrant having it in the settings vs the dev tools.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Make a useful feature difficult to discover, then remove it when few people discover it. The (not insignificant) current barrier for normal users to selectively remove cookies will be made even higher if you ask them to use dev tools. One could imagine a browser vendor who made this workflow easy because they thought it was in the users' best interest. Obviously, that browser vendor i…

>Make a useful feature difficult to discover, then remove it when few people discover it.

How many people do you really think would ever need this feature in day to day use, even if it were extremely easy to find? The number is probably vanishingly small.

Re: Google Chrome to remove detailed cookie and site data controls

#196

Post by kroltan » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

tomxor wrote: post #157

dralley wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not even close.

Why not, It's in Firefox, I'm literally looking at it right now.

Some parts of Servo are in Firefox, but not the whole thing.

Swapping your VW Beetle's wheels for a Ferrari's doesn't make it a Ferrari! Even if it improves handling (or whatever I'm not a car person, it's just an accessible analogy)

Re: Google Chrome to remove detailed cookie and site data controls

#197

Post by renewiltord » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 10:55 PM UTC

yccs27 wrote: post #150

renewiltord wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so clear all the cookies for the gov site. Previously you could do that and now you can do that. Nothing has changed for this use case.

Settings vs dev tools does make a huge difference imo. The settings pane gives you a cleaner ui for quick changes (debatable, but I certainly feel this way). Dev tools can break your browser if you do things wrong. They are made for development and deep changes, not routine stuff. That is not "nothing has changed".

It is still in 'Settings', guys. It's in chrome://settings/content/all instead of chrome://settings/siteData . Read the third and fourth sentences of the linked article. You will literally be able to browse to it in Settings.

I do have to commend you on the bold tone while being so misleading, though. Haha, good stuff. I propose a Law of Increasing Internet Indignation: indignation is a monotonically decreasing function of knowledge.

Re: Google Chrome to remove detailed cookie and site data controls

#198

Post by renewiltord » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #187

renewiltord wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I googled for those and it's funny but sadly not as entertaining as I'd hoped. All the responses involve clearing all cookies for paypal.com at al. > If I remember right, clearing it for one site didn't help because clearing "login.paypal.com" cookies didn't clear "some-other-thing.paypal.com" or "www.paypal.com". They seem to use www.paypal.com for everything now. Right, but that's not a problem that this particular…

Ah, got it. I read the screenshots as the "search" was also going away. I do have that 'single cookie' thing with another service where I have to delete one called TICKET_something, but I'll fumble through it I suppose, or use an extension.

I've mostly used this functionality to get my cookie out for Phantombuster.

Re: Google Chrome to remove detailed cookie and site data controls

#199

Post by Sebguer » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

prox wrote: post #161

deathanatos wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use & love Firefox, too, but do note that the author's criticism directly applies to it, too: AFAIK, FF will not show you the individualized cookies, or all you to act on them individually. Now, as you say, you can download an extension (and indeed, I do!), but I think there is some merit to it being in the base app. (E.g., not having to trust an extension. But also, it's part of Firefox 's data, and FF should prov…

I don’t think so, but can’t test right now, pretty sure I deleted cookies and a cache for one particular domain recently.

The chrome change doesn't stop you from being able to delete cookies and cache for individual domains, it's the ability to inspect specific cookies.

Re: Google Chrome to remove detailed cookie and site data controls

#200

Post by tsian2 » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 11:04 PM UTC

BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #76

yellow_lead wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've looked at it before - to delete a specific cookie, or see what a website has stored. Deleting specific cookies can sometimes fix broken websites.

What's the intersection of "users who want to delete a specific cookie" and "users who cannot open Developer Tools"? For the average user, deleting all of a site's cookies seems like all the granularity you need (and will be a more effective troubleshooting tactic anyway).

I don't think many non-developers use the dev tools for tasks, while people merely interested in technology (gamers and such) will get a gentle introduction to how cookies work from looking through the cookies in the normal interface. Those people might go on to become developers eventually.