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Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

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Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#31

Post by awsthro00945 »

Not only is it not the answer, vacation can actually be a contributor to burnout, IME.

In my current role, taking PTO is a legitimate punishment. If I take a day off, there is nobody else on my team who has capacity to pick up my work in my absence. When I return from PTO, not only do I now have double the amount of work to catch up on, but I also have 15 emails from angry managers upset that I didn't get to their request sooner.

"you should just take some vacation" is often a convenient escape hatch for managers that want to seem like they're helping, but without actually putting any effort into solving the problems that make people want to escape from work in the first place.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#32

Post by nvr219 »

Afton wrote: post #9
Waterluvian wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be so miserable if it had to deal with a union. Though to be fair I am not overworked or undervalued. I imagine there’s a lot of engineers who large companies just grind through.

Why would you be miserable? Union dues? occasional union communication? I'm just trying to understand what hypothetical issue you feel would be super arduous.

That person might just not want to deal with the politics and the rules. I used to contract for a union and it was super political. Also, everyone got a lunch break from noon-1pm per union rules. We'd all be in a meeting (scheduled from 11-12) and at noon on the dot everyone straight up got up and left. Needed five more minutes to wrap that up? Schedule a separate meeting.

Note I'm not saying that is good or bad... In fact I liked it a lot - work can wait! But the person who said they'd be miserable may just not be able to hang with that.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#33

Post by mylons »

Afton wrote: post #9
Waterluvian wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be so miserable if it had to deal with a union. Though to be fair I am not overworked or undervalued. I imagine there’s a lot of engineers who large companies just grind through.

Why would you be miserable? Union dues? occasional union communication? I'm just trying to understand what hypothetical issue you feel would be super arduous.

union dues create a huge conflict of interest for union leadership. it turns it into a career path and you become a politician.

if union leadership was volunteer, and dues weren’t required, maybe that sort of union would be less susceptible to corruption.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#34

Post by CobrastanJorji »

stadium wrote: post #24
sneak wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The passive-aggressive lie that is "unlimited PTO" is part of the growing toxicity of startup work environments.

Depends on the company! If it's inauthentic though, employees can smell it from far away.

I have no doubt it's meant in good faith at many companies, but it's almost sure to be used unfairly. A lot of people, especially folks who don't feel safely part of whatever in-group, are going to be hesitant to push that policy, especially because being on vacation can be an imposition on your coworkers.

I suspect you could implement the same policy in practice with less social anxiety by mandating N weeks of vacation and allowing additional time off upon request.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#35

Post by beerandt »

eatonphil wrote: post #3

> What do we do? Well, root out the real causes of burnout. If it’s not those top workplace issues, it may very well be the burn of extended, heightened stress. For employees surveyed, flexible work hours and mental health support were more popular than even a four-day work week or unlimited PTO. The point then is lots of professionals like their actual work, they just don’t like the restrictions and environment. Giv…

Unlimited PTO is crazy to me. It takes the principles of spelled-out employment terms and throws them in the trash.

The "flexible hours" policy was bad enough at my last job. Wildly varying interpretations between different managers and department heads under the same roof.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#36

Post by babarganesh »

haswell wrote: post #14
babarganesh wrote: post #5

I don't want "mental health support" from work. I only need that if my workplace is causing serious mental health issues in the first place. (Which it is at present.)

A personal counterpoint: I do want mental health support from work. Many of the downsides of complex childhood trauma didn’t start to really interfere with my life until my late 20s/early 30s. When I started really struggling at a job I’d already established myself in, I learned of and am incredibly grateful for the mental health benefits offered by my employer and for leaders who are open, understanding and willing…

I think that's valid and I want that possibility for everyone. I don't want it linked to work, though.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#37

Post by kaycebasques »

decebalus1 wrote: post #10

Bullshit. Vacation [1] IS the answer for burnout. Long vacations are even more ok for burnout. Sabbaticals are the most ok. Guess what a doctor would recommend you do if you're having health issues from burnout? If there's chronic burnout in your company/org then indeed, no amount of vacation will fix that. But neither would flexible work hours or mental health support. [1] Vacation means complete and total disconnec…

I'm 3 months into a sabbatical / gap year [1]. Feels great. The water is fine. Come on in!

[1] https://kayce.basqu.es/sabbatical/prologue

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#38

Post by 8ytecoder »

beerandt wrote: post #35
eatonphil wrote: post #3

> What do we do? Well, root out the real causes of burnout. If it’s not those top workplace issues, it may very well be the burn of extended, heightened stress. For employees surveyed, flexible work hours and mental health support were more popular than even a four-day work week or unlimited PTO. The point then is lots of professionals like their actual work, they just don’t like the restrictions and environment. Giv…

Unlimited PTO is crazy to me. It takes the principles of spelled-out employment terms and throws them in the trash. The "flexible hours" policy was bad enough at my last job. Wildly varying interpretations between different managers and department heads under the same roof.

It's really great - when it works. I have worked at two companies with this policy - only in one of them I took (rather could take) 4-5weeks off every year.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#39

Post by dopidopHN »

awsthro00945 wrote: post #26
dbs wrote: post #21

I would bet that flexible work hours are contributing for higher employee burnout.

I agree. In my experience, "flexible work hours" is often code for "everyone works weird fucking hours so instead of having a set routine, you have to be quasi-available at all times to respond to the person who decided to wait until 8pm to do the work you were waiting on". It's great for the person who needs flexibility, and shitty for everyone that depends on that person. Flexible working arrangements are great whe…

Excellent point. If the expectations is to not respond right away and not be available right away. It can be fine.

I’ve seen it work. But it require discipline.

In my situation the time difference were too striking to hope having synchronized interaction, and the team built on that habit.

But then one day we had a major refactor in our orgs and that was gone.

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