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Scalability

gregor-wagner.com

41–50 of 165 posts

Re: Scalability

#41
Recently I've gone back to firefox (8, nightly) because of two issues with chrome: memory usage and constant crashes (as of lately, on a mac).

I must say that, although I'm a tab freak (I always have around 30 to 50 tabs and/or windows opened at the same time) it is very fast and never uses more than 500mb of ram.

The only issue that I have is that it doesn't play well with rescuetime. Other than that, a delight.

Re: Scalability

#42
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But you can forbid it to access other memory areas for security Not in C/++ in any standard definition of "thread".

What you mean is not in a mandatory fashion and at the C code level and that's true. But what I meant is that you can do it for the objects you manage, such as JS code and the rest of the webpage. It doesn't prevent an issue in the Firefox interpreter itself.

Every browser does that. Virtually all the problems that matter are internal to the browser.

Re: Scalability

#43
post #7
post #5

Performance is the side-effect, not the cause. The cause is the fact that chrome uses separate processes both for security, and so if one tab crashes, you don't lose them all. The fact that it uses more memory is a design tradeoff (although with shared text pages it's not as bad as one might think). The real question is whether you would ever have that many tabs open, and how much memory do you have on your desktop?

Firefox compartment memory as well. Using a separate process it the easy way, using thread is the hard way. Each has pro and cons I guess. Even Firefox is getting a multiprocess model for testing. But for example you can't completely isolate a thread if it crashes. But you can forbid it to access other memory areas for security, that's what Firefox does. Since Firefox 4 each tab has it's own separate garbage collecto…

No, threads on x86 share page hierarchies and cannot be configured not to access memory accessible by any one thread.

Re: Scalability

#44
post #10

I know an anecdote isn't data, but here we go: I often have >100 tabs open. I also sometimes have to restart my mac, and reopen those tabs. While Chrome then struggles for a few minutes, it doesn't take half an hour, like this article suggests, to open 100+ tabs. And I did switch to Chrome from Firefox, as it seems to handle a lot of open tabs a lot better.

for me, the big difference between firefox and chrome is that it isn't a total usability disaster to handle that many tabs in firefox if you use the tree style tab ( https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta... ) extension.

Re: Scalability

#45
post #19
post #5

Performance is the side-effect, not the cause. The cause is the fact that chrome uses separate processes both for security, and so if one tab crashes, you don't lose them all. The fact that it uses more memory is a design tradeoff (although with shared text pages it's not as bad as one might think). The real question is whether you would ever have that many tabs open, and how much memory do you have on your desktop?

The limit is found pretty soon on older machines; while the OP tests on a Mac with 8GB of Ram, on my main machine I have only 2GB of Ram, and Chrome becomes unresponsive after ~10 tabs opened. I didn't think Firefox would be better but if it is, I might go back to it!

I have 1.5GB of RAM and I usually have ~15-20 tabs open without any performance hits on chrome, (including Eclipse, Skype, filezilla calc, evernote etc etc open). Maybe there's something wrong with your install?

Re: Scalability

#46
post #24

Anyone care to share how their usage patterns lead to having hundreds of tabs open at a single time? How is it even feasible to find a specific tab without doing a time consuming linear search? I rarely have more than 4-5 tabs open at a time, so I'm honestly curious.

When I read a lenghty web page, I often don't read it in one go. I want to come back to it later. I could bookmark that page, but then I would have to scroll down to where it was. It's easier to just let it open and jump right back. Some pages are bad designed, so I have to do some more like zooming the size of type or so. All that would have to be redone when opening the page again. The browsers I use most often (Safari, Camino) have buggy session managers, so nothing helps.

Re: Scalability

#47
post #5

Performance is the side-effect, not the cause. The cause is the fact that chrome uses separate processes both for security, and so if one tab crashes, you don't lose them all. The fact that it uses more memory is a design tradeoff (although with shared text pages it's not as bad as one might think). The real question is whether you would ever have that many tabs open, and how much memory do you have on your desktop?

Even back to the days before Chrome was released, many many people used to complain that Firefox grinded to a halt when they have 250 (!) tabs open.

many, many people - really? I think they were a very vocal minority, that most people don't even come close to that many tabs.

Re: Scalability

#48
post #5

Performance is the side-effect, not the cause. The cause is the fact that chrome uses separate processes both for security, and so if one tab crashes, you don't lose them all. The fact that it uses more memory is a design tradeoff (although with shared text pages it's not as bad as one might think). The real question is whether you would ever have that many tabs open, and how much memory do you have on your desktop?

> The real question is whether you would ever have that many tabs open, and how much memory do you have on your desktop?

I have 60 tabs open now (in FF), and this is after closing most of them, on a 32-bit system with 4GB of RAM. I regularly hit over 200 tabs when browsing.

Re: Scalability

#49
post #10

I know an anecdote isn't data, but here we go: I often have >100 tabs open. I also sometimes have to restart my mac, and reopen those tabs. While Chrome then struggles for a few minutes, it doesn't take half an hour, like this article suggests, to open 100+ tabs. And I did switch to Chrome from Firefox, as it seems to handle a lot of open tabs a lot better.

for me, the big difference between firefox and chrome is that it isn't a total usability disaster to handle that many tabs in firefox if you use the tree style tab ( https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta... ) extension.

Personally, I find the Panorama feature helps with that, as does having a tab list. Does Chrome offer either of those?

Re: Scalability

#50
post #48
post #5

Performance is the side-effect, not the cause. The cause is the fact that chrome uses separate processes both for security, and so if one tab crashes, you don't lose them all. The fact that it uses more memory is a design tradeoff (although with shared text pages it's not as bad as one might think). The real question is whether you would ever have that many tabs open, and how much memory do you have on your desktop?

> The real question is whether you would ever have that many tabs open, and how much memory do you have on your desktop? I have 60 tabs open now (in FF), and this is after closing most of them, on a 32-bit system with 4GB of RAM. I regularly hit over 200 tabs when browsing.

W.T.F. I can't go over 6 without feeling messy.
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