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A critique of project management software

erock.io

31–40 of 79 posts

Re: A critique of project management software

#31

I've used Jira, Pivotal Tracker, Trello, Asana, Zenhub, and other project management software that was written internally. In my opinion, based on my needs on every project I've worked on, I've yet to use a project management software that did anything better than a simple Trello board or the like. At the end of the day, I want a list of tasks, a way to indicate the status on the task, a discussion section for the ta…

Amen ravenstine. "A tool that stays out of your team’s way" is quite literally the tagline of the Trello-for-devs product I'm working on (Constructor, https://constructor.dev/).

As to the article, I agree with a lot of the author's points. The author talks about lack of features for collaboration. and I agree. What's wrong with the comment systems in Trello or Jira? I think it's that they don't model how people actually collaborate, which often goes something like this: (1) I have a question for someone else on the team, (2) that person answers or passes it to someone else who can, (3) repeat until I've got the answer, (4) reflect the answer somewhere (designs, description, etc.), (5) consider the matter resolved. Many of these might be going on in parallel, and the back-and-forth is often asynchronous. A single comment stream just doesn't lend itself to this kind of collaboration. Neither does Slack where, as the author says, requests for follow-up easily get lost.

The extreme flexibility of the "circles" is interesting. On the one hand, it's nice to give control over to the users and let them model whatever use case they have. On the other, a tool that's too open-ended may overwhelm users with options when they should really be focusing on dev. (Of course, that could be solved with intelligent default templates, or something along those lines.) I'm curious to read others thoughts about that.

Re: A critique of project management software

#32
post #12

Jira in particular is everything I dislike in software. It's feature bloated, overly complex and yet, despite the overwhelming complexity, it's hard to shape to your needs very often. I want something much much simpler. Stick to the worse is better approach and adhere closer to the philosophy of doing one thing well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better?wprov=sfla1

It's unfortunate because jira can be quite good: the key is minimal restrictions, and building out super-flexible workflow that allows almost any state transitions. It took me a couple years of using it with admin access to figure that out, though. It also took using something significantly worse to realize what I missed - and prior to that I was not exactly a fan.

Jira's JQL is it's superpower, at least for finding and summarizing stuff, though it is better if issues are categorized well. The key to that is making sure it's not actively hostile to your users. Unfortunately the defaults and the way the admin tools enable BOFH-syndrome make this an uphill battle, which is why so many jira installs are bad.

Now that said, the speed, stupid markup syntax and some other things still would make me do a good look for others prior to starting something on jira again. But jira can be decent, and there is much, much worse.

Re: A critique of project management software

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hesitant to post the link as it's still very alpha, but I am developing a Jira alternative for exactly this reason! Check out https://tahsk.com and let me know what you think I'd love some initial feedback.

Some initial feedback: Your homepage demo launches with someone entering Task #1. Task #1 isn't the problem, the problem is Task #5509 opened yesterday child of Task #803 opened two years ago and subsequently deferred by people who no longer work at the company who pointed to a planned technology project that has since been cancelled. Everyone does Task #1 fantastically. Task #1 is easy, it's greenfield by definition…

Yes very true and thanks for taking a look! :)

The idea here is the "Roadmap" view you're seeing only shows tickets which are not completed. You might have Phase 1 -> Bugs (e.g. #803) opened 2 years ago and not closed if you choose to organise them that way but the Task #5509 comes, get completed then is removed from the view.

Still playing with how to scale projects across multiple departments and show only the tasks your team cares about though, which would make that view even smaller. Right now I'm thinking either by being able to filter on any single Task or just use the existing Labels. Thinking about how to do this without bloating the language with Teams or Squads etc. though is interesting.

Re: A critique of project management software

#34
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atlassian is a blight. Developers are supposed to be informed consumers of software. Yet Atlassian applies an information hiding strategy to UX which means that their tools often have features that you simply do not know about because your role doesn’t allow that feature. How are we supposed to reason about the possible if people are hiding information? I have coworkers doing horrible manual processes or stuffing she…

I got a recruiting email from Atlassian once. I basically responded, "Have you ever used your product?"

I’ve had one boss discover that “passionate” can be a bad thing when the passionate person is professionally embarrassed by the product they’re working on.

I hope not to do that again.

Re: A critique of project management software

#35

My biggest problem with using these tools is mandates forced by someone in the company that no one on my team has ever met. As another commenter pointed out, I just want a big checklist, with sub check lists, and a handful of properties, that i can create update and delete at will. Instead of being a tool to help us do our job more efficiently, it has become a source of busy work, that requires extra employees to use…

I totally feel you, I sometimes just set up a local Redmine or simple task list in the lan that really gets used while I make the entries in whatever our corp gods decree the flavor of the month...

Re: A critique of project management software

#36
post #11

You should fit Phabricator a try (there is a community fork at https://we.phorge.it ). It is fast, simple, yet powerful. Basically the best ticketing system, I've worked so far.

Is there a definitive fork yet? I've been waiting for the community to coalesce around one of them.

Re: A critique of project management software

#37

Many problems have come from people conflating "task management" with "project management". If you've got a team of people that need a lot of hand-holding, the two can be the same. In most cases though there is a lot of experience on the team. In that case task management too easily becomes micromanaging. What is needed instead is managing against milestones and trusting your team members to execute against it. Some…

This resonates with me more than the other comments. I’ve done a lot of self-directed work, and I’ve worked at web dev shops. In the latter, the only complaint I ever had about Jira was that it was slow. My PMs were my favorite people; they were like my “operator” while I was heads down (in the matrix). They helped deal with the big picture and talk to the client while I pushed through tickets. Jira was perfect for that because they owned it and I just showed up to click the buttons they had configured.

In all my self-directed work with small teams- you’re right, we just needed a task manager. The overhead of PM would have been a net negative. We basically just needed to track our own conversations with each other.

Re: A critique of project management software

#38
The part about comments being weak resonate with me.

Personally I like to generate a lot of documentation for my own needs. (Lately I started a diary of chocolate bars I eat, but there's a story behind that.)

That's how I can pick up on Monday where I was Friday. If I get interrupted it's how I get back on track. It's how I can pick up the code I wrote six or eighteen months ago and repurpose it.

I'd be happy to file my notes with the ticket, but this would drive my coworkers up the wall, so I don't.

Re: A critique of project management software

#39
post #35

My biggest problem with using these tools is mandates forced by someone in the company that no one on my team has ever met. As another commenter pointed out, I just want a big checklist, with sub check lists, and a handful of properties, that i can create update and delete at will. Instead of being a tool to help us do our job more efficiently, it has become a source of busy work, that requires extra employees to use…

I totally feel you, I sometimes just set up a local Redmine or simple task list in the lan that really gets used while I make the entries in whatever our corp gods decree the flavor of the month...

I’ve been using Redmine for nearly a decade. Download the bitnami VM with it preinstalled and away I go. I use it for all my time tracking to generate invoices, and project estimates. Then when working on the project I can put time against an existing estimates task or if I missed something in the estimate or something was added I’ll create a new task for the extra.

Works great and I love that the UI hasn’t been redesigned and just works.

Re: A critique of project management software

#40

My biggest problem with using these tools is mandates forced by someone in the company that no one on my team has ever met. As another commenter pointed out, I just want a big checklist, with sub check lists, and a handful of properties, that i can create update and delete at will. Instead of being a tool to help us do our job more efficiently, it has become a source of busy work, that requires extra employees to use…

This also applies to how we work too.

Everyone is having a blast doing SCRUM until some manager decides it would be cool for them to keep track of how many story points the team completes as some sort of performance metric.

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