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Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

med.stanford.edu

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Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#51

Post by timr »

slg wrote: post #16
majormajor wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprising to me that cloth masks can't even do the 11% of surgical masks. Which isn't much, but surgical masks are non-optimal for many reasons. Not to mention that this doesn't seem the same as "while wearing a surgical mask you only get 11% increase in protection" but is a population-level thing. There was still non-compliance that presumably lowered the efficacy. I would've intuitively guessed that the bette…

>It's surprising to me that cloth masks can't even do the 11% of surgical masks. Just want to add clarification here. The 11% number is the community impact of the programs designed to increase mask usage. It is not the effectiveness of a mask on an individual level. That number will be much higher since as you said a number of people didn't/don't comply at a societal level.

> That number will be much higher since as you said a number of people didn't/don't comply at a societal level.

...or it will be lower. The study confounds the effects of distancing and mask-wearing. Distancing was higher in the surgical mask cohort. Also, as others note, the confidence interval for the surgical mask group overlaps zero. You can't rule out that the observed effect is due to chance.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#52

Post by merpnderp »

barbazoo wrote: post #26
exabrial wrote: post #6

This is truly great news, as we've need some controlled studies. However, _mandates_, literally threatening people with police violence, bodily or financial harm, is not the correct way forward. I think the best solution is improved mandates for airflow. It's a lot easier to improve airflow in a building than it is to police and enforce a mask mandate.

I don't get this mindset at all. Temporarily masking up at pretty much zero impact to the user vs. upgrading all building's HVAC system.

But upgrading HVAC systems is far more effective.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#53

Post by starik36 »

So am I understanding the study correctly?

> Those living in villages randomly assigned to a series of interventions promoting the use of surgical masks were about 11% less likely than those living in control villages to develop COVID-19

The surgical masks are 11% more effective in preventing COVID infection than not wearing masks at all?

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#54

Post by cfn »

jerf wrote: post #29
cfn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is a bit cheeky of them. They promoted the usage of masks and distancing in 600 villages totalling 350,000 people and observed the results (mask wearing plus distancing) in mosques (by sampling, not by checking each individual).

I know it's easy to get cynical about "sampling" when you see a stream of studies sampling populations of millions with n = 12 and getting p values just barely considered "significant", but that's not the fault of "sampling". That's just... gathering no data, basically, or if you prefer, going through the motions of gathering data without actually doing it.

I am not arguing with the method, I only think the language of the paper is misleading to the point that the parent commenter aparently thinks they actually analysed hundred of thousands of subjects when they just extrapolated their observations to that number. It may even be right and significant but that is not my point.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#55

Post by betwixthewires »

douglasisshiny wrote: post #13
exabrial wrote: post #6

This is truly great news, as we've need some controlled studies. However, _mandates_, literally threatening people with police violence, bodily or financial harm, is not the correct way forward. I think the best solution is improved mandates for airflow. It's a lot easier to improve airflow in a building than it is to police and enforce a mask mandate.

>However, _mandates_, literally threatening people with police violence, bodily or financial harm, is not the correct way forward. Maybe I'm missing something, but is this actually a thing? Who in the mainstream proposing police violence, bodily or financial harm? The worst I've heard (in the U.S.) is that a business may not allow you to enter if you're not wearing a mask, which is well within their right and reasona…

At the end of the day all government mandates come with an implied threat of violence, but that aside, since we are talking about Bangladesh in this thread, I know some people from there and the police regularly beat people in the street for violating covid mandates and they even broadcast the beatings on television as a deterrent.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#56

Post by bsksi »

douglasisshiny wrote: post #13
exabrial wrote: post #6

This is truly great news, as we've need some controlled studies. However, _mandates_, literally threatening people with police violence, bodily or financial harm, is not the correct way forward. I think the best solution is improved mandates for airflow. It's a lot easier to improve airflow in a building than it is to police and enforce a mask mandate.

>However, _mandates_, literally threatening people with police violence, bodily or financial harm, is not the correct way forward. Maybe I'm missing something, but is this actually a thing? Who in the mainstream proposing police violence, bodily or financial harm? The worst I've heard (in the U.S.) is that a business may not allow you to enter if you're not wearing a mask, which is well within their right and reasona…

In my country you are removed and fined if you are seen indoors or outdoors where you can't keep a distance without a mask.

It's when I read comments like yours that I feel so jealous of the US. You don't even know what living where I am is like. For you it's like a place that couldn't possibly exist. :P

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#57

Post by djrogers »

GeekyBear wrote: post #36

Cloth masks are quite effective against viruses with a droplet based spread. Widespread mask use came as close to wiping out last year's Flu season as we've ever seen. >Amid COVID-19 pandemic, flu has disappeared in the US NEW YORK (AP) — February is usually the peak of flu season, with doctors’ offices and hospitals packed with suffering patients. But not this year. Nationally, “this is the lowest flu season we’ve h…

> Widespread mask use came as close to wiping out last year's Flu season as we've ever seen.

I don’t think masks get alll the credit here, not even most possibly. The US was busy spraying down shopping carts with alcohol, fogging stores with disinfectant, and wiping every surface we could find with Lysol. Turns out that does nothing for Covid, but it’s extremely effective against flu virus.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#59

Post by GeekyBear »

uberduper wrote: post #47
GeekyBear wrote: post #36

Cloth masks are quite effective against viruses with a droplet based spread. Widespread mask use came as close to wiping out last year's Flu season as we've ever seen. >Amid COVID-19 pandemic, flu has disappeared in the US NEW YORK (AP) — February is usually the peak of flu season, with doctors’ offices and hospitals packed with suffering patients. But not this year. Nationally, “this is the lowest flu season we’ve h…

Isn't the flu generally transmitted through touch? i.e. hand to mouth. I was under the impression the reduced flu rates were due to hand washing, hand sanitizer, and potentially from masks preventing people from touching their face. But not the filtration masks provide.

The entire point of the masks was to catch the large droplets that people cough or sneeze out when they are infected with a virus that has a droplet based spread.

That prevents those droplets from landing on surfaces where others will come in contact with them.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#60

Post by betwixthewires »

learc83 wrote: post #34
douglasisshiny wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, _mandates_, literally threatening people with police violence, bodily or financial harm, is not the correct way forward. Maybe I'm missing something, but is this actually a thing? Who in the mainstream proposing police violence, bodily or financial harm? The worst I've heard (in the U.S.) is that a business may not allow you to enter if you're not wearing a mask, which is well within their right and reasona…

Libertarians like to make this argument about any government enforcement action. If the government tells you that you can't play loud music after 10pm and you do it anyway, eventually someone will issue you a citation. If you refuse to pay that, eventually you'll get a court summons. If you fail to appear, eventually a police officer may arrest you. If you resist, they will use force to make you comply. It's a bit hy…

It's a pretty solid gotcha.
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