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Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

med.stanford.edu

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Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#41

Post by ridaj »

douglasisshiny wrote: post #13
exabrial wrote: post #6

This is truly great news, as we've need some controlled studies. However, _mandates_, literally threatening people with police violence, bodily or financial harm, is not the correct way forward. I think the best solution is improved mandates for airflow. It's a lot easier to improve airflow in a building than it is to police and enforce a mask mandate.

>However, _mandates_, literally threatening people with police violence, bodily or financial harm, is not the correct way forward. Maybe I'm missing something, but is this actually a thing? Who in the mainstream proposing police violence, bodily or financial harm? The worst I've heard (in the U.S.) is that a business may not allow you to enter if you're not wearing a mask, which is well within their right and reasona…

Mask mandates (public or private) means cops will forcibly remove you if, say, you're walking around in a mall without wearing one, so yes police violence and bodily harm is part of the threat. It also means that if your job or business requires you to work in places where a mask is required, but you don't want to wear a mask, you'll lose your job or business, causing financial harm.

But it's not unusual. We have the same things for antisocial behaviors in general. If you like to take dumps in the middle of a mall, the police will forcibly remove you. If your job requires you not to take a dump on your desk but that's what you like to do, you will suffer job loss and financial harm from a no-pooping-on-the-desk mandates. The same can be said for seatbelt laws too. I don't think that's an issue with the mandate personally, that's what a mandate means.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#42

Post by dboreham »

majormajor wrote: post #28
dragontamer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of us got cloth masks with the full expectation that they were worse than proper PPE from hospitals (be it surgical masks or N95 masks). I'm not sure if people remember: but there was a shortage of masks of all kinds in March 2020. Cloth masks were the only thing we could get, and we all knew they were kind of crap (a lot of us were using coffee filters stapled onto the masks to increase its effectivenes…

Could you share a link for $1 N95's? That's better than I've seen. I've already moved to this approach myself, it's an increase in cost that I'll gladly take for increased protection. Just waiting for government and businesses in the US to catch up. It was definitely hard to find the good stuff at first - and I was much more reclusive as a result too - but yeah, things have changed. I wish people wouldn't respond to…

Costco "non-duckbill" N95 are $1.50 currently. They have the duckbill/fold-flat N95-ish kind for $0.60.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#43

Post by beervirus »

douglasisshiny wrote: post #13
exabrial wrote: post #6

This is truly great news, as we've need some controlled studies. However, _mandates_, literally threatening people with police violence, bodily or financial harm, is not the correct way forward. I think the best solution is improved mandates for airflow. It's a lot easier to improve airflow in a building than it is to police and enforce a mask mandate.

>However, _mandates_, literally threatening people with police violence, bodily or financial harm, is not the correct way forward. Maybe I'm missing something, but is this actually a thing? Who in the mainstream proposing police violence, bodily or financial harm? The worst I've heard (in the U.S.) is that a business may not allow you to enter if you're not wearing a mask, which is well within their right and reasona…

Other countries will absolutely subject you to police intervention for failure to wear a mask.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#44

Post by Kiro »

GeekyBear wrote: post #36

Cloth masks are quite effective against viruses with a droplet based spread. Widespread mask use came as close to wiping out last year's Flu season as we've ever seen. >Amid COVID-19 pandemic, flu has disappeared in the US NEW YORK (AP) — February is usually the peak of flu season, with doctors’ offices and hospitals packed with suffering patients. But not this year. Nationally, “this is the lowest flu season we’ve h…

Flu was almost eliminated in Sweden as well and we had almost no mask usage. Feels like social distancing was the more important factor.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#45

Post by nokcha »

dragontamer wrote: post #30
nielsbot wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems quite reasonable to wear a (K)N95 instead of a surgical mask. Slightly less comfortable, but yes, affordable for most.

That "K" means that my ears hurt after 2 hours though. Going for full N95 means that the strap goes all the way around my head and is way more comfortable for extended use (ex: airplane rides or whatnot)

There are also KN95 masks with headband straps instead of earloop straps. E.g., a web search for "Powecom KN95 Respirator Headband Style".

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#46

Post by kragen »

slg wrote: post #8
chitowneats wrote: post #4

From Martin Kulldorff, esteemed (though contrarian) Harvard Med epidemiologist: "Odd that mask advocates are excited by this study. As a vaccine advocate, I would be horrified if a vaccine trial showed 11% efficacy. Based on the 95% confidence intervals, we do not even know if surgical mask efficacy is more than 0%." https://twitter.com/MartinKulldorff/status/14332026511062016...

Except that was not what was tested. Here is what they did: >No-cost free masks distribution - One-third of the intervention villages received a cloth mask and two-thirds of the intervention villages received a surgical mask[5] during household distribution and distribution at marketplaces and other public locations weekly or every fortnight. Masks were also distributed at mosques on three Fridays during the first fo…

Hmm, are you suggesting that those public policies might have had an impact on covid transmission that wasn't mediated through mask-wearing? For example, having the imams discuss the importance of mask-wearing might discourage people from going to Friday prayers? That seems unlikely but conceivable.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#47

Post by uberduper »

GeekyBear wrote: post #36

Cloth masks are quite effective against viruses with a droplet based spread. Widespread mask use came as close to wiping out last year's Flu season as we've ever seen. >Amid COVID-19 pandemic, flu has disappeared in the US NEW YORK (AP) — February is usually the peak of flu season, with doctors’ offices and hospitals packed with suffering patients. But not this year. Nationally, “this is the lowest flu season we’ve h…

Isn't the flu generally transmitted through touch? i.e. hand to mouth. I was under the impression the reduced flu rates were due to hand washing, hand sanitizer, and potentially from masks preventing people from touching their face. But not the filtration masks provide.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#48

Post by acranox »

majormajor wrote: post #28
dragontamer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of us got cloth masks with the full expectation that they were worse than proper PPE from hospitals (be it surgical masks or N95 masks). I'm not sure if people remember: but there was a shortage of masks of all kinds in March 2020. Cloth masks were the only thing we could get, and we all knew they were kind of crap (a lot of us were using coffee filters stapled onto the masks to increase its effectivenes…

Could you share a link for $1 N95's? That's better than I've seen. I've already moved to this approach myself, it's an increase in cost that I'll gladly take for increased protection. Just waiting for government and businesses in the US to catch up. It was definitely hard to find the good stuff at first - and I was much more reclusive as a result too - but yeah, things have changed. I wish people wouldn't respond to…

https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-N95-Particulate-Performance-D...

Home Depot sells this 20 pack for $24 from 3M. That’s $1.20 each.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#49

Post by dboreham »

mullen wrote: post #20
exabrial wrote: post #6

This is truly great news, as we've need some controlled studies. However, _mandates_, literally threatening people with police violence, bodily or financial harm, is not the correct way forward. I think the best solution is improved mandates for airflow. It's a lot easier to improve airflow in a building than it is to police and enforce a mask mandate.

This is naive. There is a significant portion of the population that are not going to cooperated with health safety protocols unless there is a real chance of them going to jail or getting a fine. We're talking wearing a mask and saving lives.

Based on my experience living in a "red state" in the USA, it really doesn't take that level of sanction. People almost universally wore masks in grocery stores here when: a) it was a state mandate/law and b) the asshole state politicians kept their mouths shut about it. Prior to the state mandate there was a patchwork of business and local health dept mandates that were far less well observed. Then subsequently (when the governor changed from Dem to GOP) the politicians realized they could score points with the "not gona do it" crowd by criticizing mask wearing and we went back to nobody wearing masks. And finally, delta variant seems to have scared a significant cohort into voluntary mask wearing.

Re: Surgical masks reduce Covid-19 spread, large-scale Stanford study shows

#50

Post by numbsafari »

treis wrote: post #38
cfn wrote: post #14

Here is the paper (or one of them, it is not clear after so many links): https://www.poverty-action.org/sites/default/files/publicati... Bottom line: "The proportion of individuals with COVID-like symptoms was 7.62% (N=13,273) in the intervention arm and 8.62% (N=13,893) in the control arm. Blood samples were collected from N=10,952 consenting, symptomatic individuals. Adjusting for baseline covariates, the 2 interve…

This is a pretty modest impact, a short duration, and is somewhat clouded by it not being a double blind study. The rate of infection at 7.62% vs 8.62% are particularly troublesome. As a comparison, it's estimated that 1/3-1/2 of Americans have been infected with Covid. It's an open question of what the end game would be. Could be that both groups would end at the same infection rate. The masked group might just take…

> The masked group might just take longer to get there.

That's not a bad thing. Remember "flatten the curve"?

Avoiding everyone from getting it isn't the goal. Preventing the collapse of the healthcare system is.

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