Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Take-Two Sues Enthusiasts Behind GTA Fan Projects Re3 and ReVC

torrentfreak.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 93 posts

Re: Take-Two Sues Enthusiasts Behind GTA Fan Projects Re3 and ReVC

#71

Post by esistgut »

refracture wrote: post #42
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's something I really appreciate about Sega's handling of Sonic IP: as long as you aren't trying to make money you can pretty much get away with anything. I think Sonic's continued popularity is in no small part due to this policy.

It's also something that makes me appreciate how Capcom approached the Resident Evil 2 remake. They invited the devs up to their studio to show them the official remake and then asked them to cease developing theirs. No drama or bad blood.

Side story: these developers have created their own studio (Invader Studios) and released their first game just a couple years ago, Daymare 1998.

Re: Take-Two Sues Enthusiasts Behind GTA Fan Projects Re3 and ReVC

#72

Post by Const-me »

GranPC wrote: post #67
Const-me wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> here's a sample of code from the re3 repository in question. Do you have a link? I have downloaded all 3 branches (master, miami and lcs), searched for these constants and got nothing. The code you have copy-pasted crashes on Windows with 100% guarantee. You see, lower 2GB (or optionally 1GB with the /3GB kernel switch) of address space is reserved for the OS kernel.

It looks like that's code from a very old commit. re3 was initially built by injecting code into the regular GTA 3 binary, and slowly replacing methods inside the game with drop-in replacements that functionally worked the same. When enough of these replacements were built, it was then converted to a standalone binary.

Indeed, git format-patch found them. The magic numbers were present in the very first commit, and removed on 17 Apr 2020. The readme of the first commit said this:

The aim of this project is to reverse GTA III for PC by replacing parts of the game one by one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus such that we have a working game at all times.

Gonna be interesting to see the 2400 years old thought experiment tested in a modern US court :-)

Re: Take-Two Sues Enthusiasts Behind GTA Fan Projects Re3 and ReVC

#73

Post by rasz »

Hamuko wrote: post #6
flatiron wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s tricky (obviously) but the code itself is certainly protected. If they decompiled the code and just cleaned it up it’s very grey. If they simply studied it’s workings and coded it fresh that’s pretty clearly not infringing. But if take-two can point at chunks of code that’s exactly the same they have a bit of a leg. Mainly though they know they won’t fight back so why not just sue? They have nothing to lose.

> If they decompiled the code and just cleaned it up it’s very grey. This is from the CODING STYLE document: "Don't just copy paste code from IDA, make it look nice" https://github.com/GTAmodding/re3/blob/master/CODING_STYLE.m...

amateurs, should of been:

"Don't just copy paste code from IDA, pull it thru GitHub Copilot first"

Re: Take-Two Sues Enthusiasts Behind GTA Fan Projects Re3 and ReVC

#74

Post by floatboth »

KMnO4 wrote: post #41
klodolph wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They make money from having lots of customers, not from having a few obsessed fans. I’ve heard this argument before but the kind of people who are obsessed enough to reverse-engineer old games don’t necessarily even play new games. They’re often fans of the old games and don’t play new games, or they’re people who are interested in reverse engineering. You can release a remaster of an old game, but any reverse-engine…

Here’s another data point since it’s not always as simple as “remastering”. Nintendo released Super Mario 3D All Stars for a limited purchase window between Sept 2020 and March 2021. Super Mario 64 was included in its original 1996 glory, included a low frame rate, 4:3 aspect ratio, low res textures (iirc they were slightly improved). In fact, Nintendo’s bundle was literally a N64 emulator running on the switch. At t…

What was Nintendo's reaction again? https://github.com/n64decomp is still up at least. Is Take-Two a more aggressive bully than Nintendo??

Re: Take-Two Sues Enthusiasts Behind GTA Fan Projects Re3 and ReVC

#75

Post by AlwaysRock »

dasKrokodil wrote: post #8

Man, regardless of who is in the right legally, I wish these big corporations had a better sense of humor and would understand and appreciate that the people who go to these lengths to understand and recreate the original code aren't their enemies, but their biggest fans.

Isnt part of the issue here copyright law? If they don't shut down things like this then eventually one of them grows large enough that it does start making money, ends up in court with Take-Two, and the judge could say that GTA copyright doesnt hold up since they failed to protect their copyright when they knew there were many people infringing on it.

I don't support this action by Take-Two but I think this is more of a legal situation rather than a, "How dare they try to rip off our game?" situation.

Re: Take-Two Sues Enthusiasts Behind GTA Fan Projects Re3 and ReVC

#76

Post by realusername »

klodolph wrote: post #14
Const-me wrote: post #7

Probably someone in the upper management of take-two had the idea of downsizing their legal department. That department have decided to demonstrate how incredibly useful they are, by suing a few people from Germany, New Zealand, Turkey, and United Kingdom. > Defendants are well aware that they do not possess the right to copy, adapt, or distribute derivative GTA source code, or the audiovisual elements of the Games,…

> I think the opposite is true, what they did was fair use. The defendants are outside US, pretty sure everything they did was 100% legal in their jurisdictions. There's just no way that it's fair use to distribute a decompiled copy of a game. Reverse engineering and decompiling are generally legal, but they don't strip away copyrights from the code. Think about it this way... compiling source code does not change wh…

> There's just no way that it's fair use to distribute a decompiled copy of a game. Reverse engineering and decompiling are generally legal, but they don't strip away copyrights from the code.

In France it's legal to redistribute it if it's for "interopability purposes" which is very easy to defend in this case since RE3 is primarly used to make a massive amount of ports (Switch, Vita...) which would not exist without this project.

Re: Take-Two Sues Enthusiasts Behind GTA Fan Projects Re3 and ReVC

#77

Post by AlwaysRock »

quakeguy wrote: post #62
dasKrokodil wrote: post #8

Man, regardless of who is in the right legally, I wish these big corporations had a better sense of humor and would understand and appreciate that the people who go to these lengths to understand and recreate the original code aren't their enemies, but their biggest fans.

I‘d simple offer employment if i where in the position to do so. Let them improve the games from within, they surely showed talent and knowledge. Legal action can have the opposite effect here.

Often folks who make these mods are young or based somewhere outside of the US. Not that there couldnt be a job for them but its not all that likely that there would be a role that would actually be a good fit skill wise and location wise if there were even eligible to work in that country.

Re: Take-Two Sues Enthusiasts Behind GTA Fan Projects Re3 and ReVC

#78

Post by thethimble »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #75
dasKrokodil wrote: post #8

Man, regardless of who is in the right legally, I wish these big corporations had a better sense of humor and would understand and appreciate that the people who go to these lengths to understand and recreate the original code aren't their enemies, but their biggest fans.

Isnt part of the issue here copyright law? If they don't shut down things like this then eventually one of them grows large enough that it does start making money, ends up in court with Take-Two, and the judge could say that GTA copyright doesnt hold up since they failed to protect their copyright when they knew there were many people infringing on it. I don't support this action by Take-Two but I think this is more…

Why don’t they approach the creators and license the franchise while still preserving their rights? Seems like this is the best of both worlds?

Re: Take-Two Sues Enthusiasts Behind GTA Fan Projects Re3 and ReVC

#79

Post by rainbowzootsuit »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #75
dasKrokodil wrote: post #8

Man, regardless of who is in the right legally, I wish these big corporations had a better sense of humor and would understand and appreciate that the people who go to these lengths to understand and recreate the original code aren't their enemies, but their biggest fans.

Isnt part of the issue here copyright law? If they don't shut down things like this then eventually one of them grows large enough that it does start making money, ends up in court with Take-Two, and the judge could say that GTA copyright doesnt hold up since they failed to protect their copyright when they knew there were many people infringing on it. I don't support this action by Take-Two but I think this is more…

My understanding is that this applies to trademark — the necessity to defend it — but not to copyright.

Re: Take-Two Sues Enthusiasts Behind GTA Fan Projects Re3 and ReVC

#80

Post by [deleted] »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #75
dasKrokodil wrote: post #8

Man, regardless of who is in the right legally, I wish these big corporations had a better sense of humor and would understand and appreciate that the people who go to these lengths to understand and recreate the original code aren't their enemies, but their biggest fans.

Isnt part of the issue here copyright law? If they don't shut down things like this then eventually one of them grows large enough that it does start making money, ends up in court with Take-Two, and the judge could say that GTA copyright doesnt hold up since they failed to protect their copyright when they knew there were many people infringing on it. I don't support this action by Take-Two but I think this is more…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN