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The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

nautil.us

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Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#201

Post by morpheos137 »

awb wrote: post #32
SamBam wrote: post #24

I'd be interested to know how people (humanity) would feel if it were known that the universe would just come to a hard-stop in a million years. In practice, it should make no difference. That's already much, much further than any of us can comprehend. It's a hundred times the length of recorded human history. What would it really matter? On the other hand, it would seem so short, I think a sense of nihilism would al…

Tech moves so fast, I can’t think of a termination event that couldn’t be solved with 1M years of exponential growth. Even with the Big Freeze or Big Crunch of the universe, there’s at least some hope that some currently unknown science, energy source, etc. might be accessible to us in 1M years that could delay or reduce the severity of the event. But, let’s say there’s a an event that will somehow destroy our entire…

It is highly unlikely the human species as we know it will last a million more years. Why should we worry about what might happen in the far future?

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#202

Post by figassis »

jaequery wrote: post #179
dvaun wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting—this is the first time I've came across someone with my own viewpoint. I'm not certain if there's a name for it. I figure it's a form of pantheism. For me, certainly, it's the only thing which makes sense.

I guess another word for it could be, God.

Exactly, this is my view of the whole omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence concept. God is all those bc because God = the universe = us and all of nature, including insects, rocks, water, photons, gravity. Hell, heaven, good, bad, its the judgements we make of our own decisions and the consequences we attribute to them. And this does not make the concept of religion any less powerful or relevant.

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#203

Post by antifa »

CDRdude wrote: post #139
jakelazaroff wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does often manifest in what is essentially nihilism, though — e.g. “I’m not taking the vaccine; if God’s will is that I die from COVID then so be it.”

That’s a good point, I hadn’t considered that.

Also, the rest of us have to actually live in the world the planless plan-believers have created for us.

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#204

Post by audit »

SamBam wrote: post #24

I'd be interested to know how people (humanity) would feel if it were known that the universe would just come to a hard-stop in a million years. In practice, it should make no difference. That's already much, much further than any of us can comprehend. It's a hundred times the length of recorded human history. What would it really matter? On the other hand, it would seem so short, I think a sense of nihilism would al…

I am studying Torah these days (just reading BeReishit slowly, and picking Rabbi and Sages interpretations on things that are totaly unclear).

One Rabbi's explanation using a very nuanced analysis of verbs in the chapter about creation [1].

Is that the two things that will remain forever are: light and a human.

Not Earth, not animals, or anything else that was mentioned.. but just those 2 things: Light and Human.

What form this will be in, how -- we do not know.

In early sections, until Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden -- they did not have skin, so it is understood that they were souls.

May be that's the form that humans will be in ... , do not know.

---

The analysis he was using was around how a verb (in ancient Hebrew, not in translations) was used to indicate an 'Intent' and then how another verb used used to declare 'completion' of a task.

The 'completion' in that section was described for different things differently:

' it was so', 'it was good' , or no completion was explicity stated.

There was also difference in 'initiation' verbs for example: 'Let there be', 'let us .. '

I do not remember all the combinations. But the Rabbi said that only two things had the 'initiation' and the 'completion' patterns that indicated that those things would last forever.

It was light and a human.

Sorry could not offer bette recollection here.

[1] https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165/jewish/Cha...

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#205

Post by devoutsalsa »

lelanthran wrote: post #200
devoutsalsa wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that we can presently see two galaxies that will never be able to see each other. They will drift out of Earth's observable universe before each other's light would have a chance to reach the other. Dark energy & accelerating expansion is weird.

Which two galaxies?

Any two galaxies at opposite ends of the observable universe.

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#206

Post by NoSorryCannot »

telesilla wrote: post #152
haxiomic wrote: post #19

This dramatic visualization of the timeline for the rest of the universe is well worth a watch to get a feel for what we believe the future of the universe to look like [TIMELAPSE OF THE FUTURE: A Journey to the End of Time] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD4izuDMUQA However, when you get to the end (which is perhaps a little depressing!), I'd recommend learning a bit about what we think could come 'after' this peri…

I just watched this and found the ending quite comforting: at the end, entropy stops increasing and nothing happens, forever. After a long week at work, it's pretty much what I'm up for!

A trillions of years long work week would leave anyone tired!

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#207

Post by abrookewood »

telesilla wrote: post #152
haxiomic wrote: post #19

This dramatic visualization of the timeline for the rest of the universe is well worth a watch to get a feel for what we believe the future of the universe to look like [TIMELAPSE OF THE FUTURE: A Journey to the End of Time] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD4izuDMUQA However, when you get to the end (which is perhaps a little depressing!), I'd recommend learning a bit about what we think could come 'after' this peri…

I just watched this and found the ending quite comforting: at the end, entropy stops increasing and nothing happens, forever. After a long week at work, it's pretty much what I'm up for!

It means nothing to my life, but the thought that it all ends in cold dark silence is very depressing. Hopefully we've got the science on dark energy wrong and a big crunch provides the possibility of re-birth.

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#208

Post by NateEag »

krylon wrote: post #196
NateEag wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this framework, Stalin and Kim Jong-Il created their own meaning and no one has a basis for saying what they chose is worse than anyone else's choice. To many of us, that is horribly demoralizing.

Either you are twisting my words, or I phrased what I said very badly. Let me rephrase what I said, hopefully more clearly: First, from the perspective of "the universe", the very concept of meaning is meaningless (sorry, no pun intended). From THAT perspective, Stalin or Pol Pot or Hitler or Djenghis Khan killing millions of people is no more or less meaningful or morally good or bad than the asteroid that killed th…

Thank you for trying to clarify your thoughts. I understand that you think ethics exist inside human minds and not anywhere else.

I still don't see why Stalin, Pol Pot, and company don't get to decide that they value mass murder to achieve their personal goals, in absentia transcendence.

I find their choices appalling, but it seems they did not.

It's the meaning they chose to make in their life.

If that's their code of ethics, and those ethics exist solely inside our heads, then there's nothing to be said beyond "I hate that," as far as I can see.

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#209

Post by NateEag »

rovolo wrote: post #194
NateEag wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but if someone doesn't grant that they want to reduce suffering for others, you have no legitimate way to argue to them that they should. You get to pick your meaning and they get to pick theirs. It's "do what you want", at the end of the day.

In each of your responses, you're saying there needs to be a shared base of ethics. > you have no legitimate way to argue to them that they should > There's no shared basis I can legitimately use to argue with them > you could not legitimately argue to them that their choices are wrong, philosophically speaking But you're not answering these questions: Which values are included in that shared basis? Where do those va…

Sure, you can criticize other people's values.

They don't have to listen, though. Maybe their values even dictate that they shouldn't.

You're right that I'm not answering a lot of questions about my own perspective. I wasn't trying to explain my views.

I was trying to explain why many humans are not at all comforted by this "choose your own values" system.

In my case, it produces nihilistic horror, and this is one of the reasons.

I'm not saying a shared basis for ethics must exist.

I'm saying that if one doesn't, there's no basis for arguing that someone else's ethics are wrong.

All you can legitimately say is "I don't like that."

It comes down to "ethics" by mob rule and democracy.

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#210

Post by entropicdrifter »

AlexanderTheGr8 wrote: post #123
kibwen wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar experience here. Learning about astronomy was a psychologically traumatizing experience. After a few years of ceaseless low-key existential crises I think I finally ended up better off, with a healthy perspective of my place in the universe and an appreciation for what a miracle it is that we have the chance to observe anything at all. The writings of Carl Sagan helped greatly. But I fear I could have just as…

Is nihilism or hedonism bad? A lot of people already live their lives for pleasure (hedonism) - people work their entire lives to earn money to either enjoy / vacation / sex / etc. Nihilism is considerably rare but I believe that's because it's opposite to hedonism, in a way.

>I believe that's because it's opposite to hedonism, in a way.

I don't see how. Nihilism is descriptive whereas hedonism is prescriptive.

Nihilism is an answer to the question of what is or is not, to which is says, "not at all". That's why there are many flavors of nihilism, such as existential nihilism ("there is no meaning at all"), moral nihilism ("there is no morality at all"), or epistemic nihilism ("there is no knowledge at all").

Contrast hedonism, which is an answer to the question of what one ought to do with one's time, or to put another way, it's a min-max strategy where pain is minimized and pleasure is maximized.

I don't see how those two areas of philosophy contradict each other in any way.

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