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Web-based editor

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Re: Web-based editor

#71

Post by ausudhz »

debarshri wrote: post #44
ausudhz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this happening a lot with the young engineers. Very few of them really know what's happening under the hoods.

I am pretty much sure engineers from late 70s said the same for young engineers. Same for the engineers from 80s for those in 90s. And the trend continues. I think servers becomes the new processors and the abstraction gets higher and higher. It is the nature of evolution whether you like it or not.

Doesn't change anything. It's still a problem till you've to support something that is crucial and only few people know about it.

Otherwise we'll end up recalling the retired programmers that know cobol because nobody else can fix it anymore.

Re: Web-based editor

#72

Post by tehbeard »

sidk24 wrote: post #70
tehbeard wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but with write access and commiting from the page (vs 1s' readonly approach), as well as some extensions working (or atleast, it filters better than 1s and only shows those that do work).

but for code editing, we have collaborated with gitpod.io :)

That would be vs. github codespaces though wouldn't it?

Re: Web-based editor

#73

Post by Zababa »

user-the-name wrote: post #26
greatgib wrote: post #10

Remember the typical Microsoft: "embrace, extend, extinguish" ...

What exactly is it you are saying they are embracing, extending or extinguishing here?

Open source development, starting with Javascript/Typescript. Microsoft own Typescript, VSCode, Github, Azure and NPM. It's not hard to imagine in the future an online dev environment that works with all of these technologies together. But this environment won't have an open source counterpart.

Embrace: Buy Github, NPM, develop VScode, Typescript, Azure.

Extend & extinguish: make all of them work together really well in a way that can't be reproduce by the open soure community.

I think it's a bit early to say that they are embracing and extinguishing at this point, but I wasn't here last time and may be biaised because I find these tools incredibly convenient. In a way, Microsoft is leveraging their unique advantage over other cloud vendors, which is their proximity with developers.

Re: Web-based editor

#74

Post by layer8 »

yann2 wrote: post #51
divan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think about it, browser is just an OS for the apps that have crappiest stack (typesetting engine from 80s and, well, javascript), weird window manager (full-window tabs), sandbox for everything (including TCP/UDP calls) and no apps distribution process whatsoever – you download app each time you want to use it. Why people are excited about this OS, I don't know :)

Start disecting how the brain works and its very similar one stack of garbage hacks on top of another constantly accumulating over time.

I’d like something more dependable and user-friendly than my brain though.

Re: Web-based editor

#76

Post by user-the-name »

dmm wrote: post #59
user-the-name wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is it you are saying they are embracing, extending or extinguishing here?

vscode is open source but many of the most interesting features are proprietary, making the use of anything but the official build impossible for many use cases. A few weeks ago I investigated using an embedded version of vscode to create containerized dev environments for an internal developer platform we're working on. The hope was to allow devs to write and debug code from inside a k8s container by using vscode in…

None of which has anything to do with "embrace, extend, extinguish". That just means they are not wanting to fully commit to open sourcing their own editor.

Re: Web-based editor

#77

Post by user-the-name »

Zababa wrote: post #73
user-the-name wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is it you are saying they are embracing, extending or extinguishing here?

Open source development, starting with Javascript/Typescript. Microsoft own Typescript, VSCode, Github, Azure and NPM. It's not hard to imagine in the future an online dev environment that works with all of these technologies together. But this environment won't have an open source counterpart. Embrace: Buy Github, NPM, develop VScode, Typescript, Azure. Extend & extinguish: make all of them work together really well…

What is the "extinguish" part?

Re: Web-based editor

#78

Post by Zababa »

user-the-name wrote: post #77
Zababa wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source development, starting with Javascript/Typescript. Microsoft own Typescript, VSCode, Github, Azure and NPM. It's not hard to imagine in the future an online dev environment that works with all of these technologies together. But this environment won't have an open source counterpart. Embrace: Buy Github, NPM, develop VScode, Typescript, Azure. Extend & extinguish: make all of them work together really well…

What is the "extinguish" part?

According to Wikipedia:

"Extinguish: When extensions become a de facto standard because of their dominant market share, they marginalize competitors that do not or cannot support the new extensions."

So if your text editor doesn't support integration with Github and a cloud vendor, or if your repositories don't support integration with an online text editor and a cloud vendor, or if your cloud vendor doesn't support integration with Github and an online text editor, this will affect your market share. I think the end goal is around "developer mindshare" (which, I admit, is a really vague concept), especially in web applications. By assembling all that they have, they can create an experience no one else can, all while leveraging open source tools.

You could also imagine an integration with education (Github student pack, Azure credits, etc). At this point, they could dominate the web app market because no one else can offer such a deep integration across the stack.

I think one of the differences with the "old" EEE would be that instead of intentionally crippling certain features, they are instead focusing on giving the best-in-class experience. If you consider that it's just regular competition and not EEE because of that, that's totally fair. Still, I think that we should still be wary of domination. Competition is what's pushing Microsoft to develop all those wonderful tools, and I fear that with domination they might become complacent and abuse their position.

Re: Web-based editor

#79

Post by resizeitplz »

throwaway47292 wrote: post #20

It seems we are moving to a world of magic, where developers will be alchemists, and only a handful of people will understand "physics" or "chemistry" and know what is actually going on in the cloud, serverless, fileless, functionless development. Since google translate and google maps, I always ask myself, what is the real price for this very convenient and engaging product.

Just like "scientist" and "engineer" have fractured into many specialist disciplines, the same is happening (and has happened many times before; when's the last time you wrote assembly?) in the disciplines of "computer science" and "computer engineering".

There will still need to be experts to continue the building and maintenance of services; however, not everyone designing web sites or doing data analytics needs to know in intricate detail the underpinnings of their tools.

Re: Web-based editor

#80

Post by zz865 »

maple3142 wrote: post #65
divan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think about it, browser is just an OS for the apps that have crappiest stack (typesetting engine from 80s and, well, javascript), weird window manager (full-window tabs), sandbox for everything (including TCP/UDP calls) and no apps distribution process whatsoever – you download app each time you want to use it. Why people are excited about this OS, I don't know :)

> sandbox for everything IMO, This is the best thing about browser as an OS. You can run untrusted apps and know that it couldn't steal your ssh keys or other things without your consent, similar to iOS and Android.

Yes its the best thing about a browser when your laptop has valuable stuff on it.

When all your data is on a server its like you dont need a sandbox any more. :)

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