Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chocolat - the new editor

chocolatapp.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 150 posts

Re: Chocolat - the new editor

#141

Post by drivingmenuts »

simplify wrote: post #135
drivingmenuts wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'd prefer a Preferences GUI, rather than JSON files. If you're going to release on a platform, follow that platform's conventions. I suspect laziness on the part of the developer in regards to a Preferences GUI, rather than any attempt at a new paradigm.

Actually I really like the fact that they're JSON files. It makes it very easy to copy/paste preferences between different machines.

OK, that's a valid point - however, copying and pasting from the Library/Application Support folder is just as easy (except maybe finding it).

Where I have a problem is that it violates the expectations of the platform. It's a Mac application - it has a Preferences GUI. This is not a problem with things like Apache, which, as a service, doesn't even have a front-end; I don't expect it there.

Re: Chocolat - the new editor

#142

Post by tincholio »

alextgordon wrote: post #128
frou_dh wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't choose vim or emacs for the same reason I don't choose Linux. The appeal of OS X is that it's a pleasant place to spend time, full of well crafted GUIs specifically for it, while retaining a good amount of Unix power.

Yes. We don't fool ourselves into thinking we can convert hardcore Vim or Emacs users. If you love Vim or love Emacs, then you should just use Vim or Emacs! Personally, I desire a better UI. The number of good, actively developed text editors on the Mac is actually remarkably small. There's TextMate 2, which has become a synonym for vapourware. Kod's future seems uncertain now that Rasmus got his job. Coda and Espres…

What exactly do you mean by a better UI? The fact that it's Cocoa? Admittedly, I haven't tried your editor (and most likely won't), but can you briefly tell how the UI is any better than that of Emacs or Vim, other than being "shiny"?

Re: Chocolat - the new editor

#143

Post by tincholio »

jimbokun wrote: post #131
jfb wrote: post #25

I know I'm a graybeard, but I have yet to see a serious editor on any platform that could get me to switch away from Emacs. The perils of 20+ years of muscle memory and accumulated knowledge, I suppose.

"The perils of 20+ years of muscle memory and accumulated knowledge, I suppose." This cuts both ways. For people whose muscle memory is attuned to the standard Mac or Windows shortcuts and UI conventions, Chocolat (or Textmate, or some Windows text editor) might be more appealing.

That sounds pretty limited to copy/cut/paste and opening and saving. If you're doing heavy editing, and more so if you're using the editor for programming, you won't find that much use for standard shortcuts.

For Emacs, there's also Aquamacs and CUA mode, which use the "native" shortcuts as you'd expect.

Re: Chocolat - the new editor

#144

Post by jfb »

jimbokun wrote: post #131
jfb wrote: post #25

I know I'm a graybeard, but I have yet to see a serious editor on any platform that could get me to switch away from Emacs. The perils of 20+ years of muscle memory and accumulated knowledge, I suppose.

"The perils of 20+ years of muscle memory and accumulated knowledge, I suppose." This cuts both ways. For people whose muscle memory is attuned to the standard Mac or Windows shortcuts and UI conventions, Chocolat (or Textmate, or some Windows text editor) might be more appealing.

Of course. I wouldn't try and force Emacs down the throat of someone who was just looking for a simple text editor; but by the same token, it is at times wearying to read about "innovations" in editing that Stallman implemented 20 years ago. And so it goes.

Re: Chocolat - the new editor

#145

Post by Skywing »

mweibel wrote: post #81
Skywing wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Eclipse on all of my dev machines, for this. Eclipse runs everywhere, as far as I know. I'm able to keep the same dev setup on my Windows PC, my Macbook and anywhere else I may want. Eclipse can edit files over sftp - no drive mapping needed, etc. I've modified Eclipse to be pretty minimal. All in all it's a good setup - it's definitely not sexy or very exciting, though. I rarely ever see it mentioned but it's…

How did you setup eclipse to open files over sftp? Remote System Explorer? I installed this one but I don't like it :/

yup. the remote system explorer package. i love it. its the most like a typical project browser that i've found.

honestly, my main complaint is just about eclipse itself. for some reason id rather be using something more "cool", but eclipse has always just done the job for me.

Re: Chocolat - the new editor

#146

Post by jordanlev »

tincholio wrote: post #142
alextgordon wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. We don't fool ourselves into thinking we can convert hardcore Vim or Emacs users. If you love Vim or love Emacs, then you should just use Vim or Emacs! Personally, I desire a better UI. The number of good, actively developed text editors on the Mac is actually remarkably small. There's TextMate 2, which has become a synonym for vapourware. Kod's future seems uncertain now that Rasmus got his job. Coda and Espres…

What exactly do you mean by a better UI? The fact that it's Cocoa? Admittedly, I haven't tried your editor (and most likely won't), but can you briefly tell how the UI is any better than that of Emacs or Vim, other than being "shiny"?

I can't speak for the developer, but as a TextMate user who has dabbled in vim/emacs over the years, my take on this is it's about "polish". Like MacVim is line-based, and when you scroll or resize the window, it moves in "chunks" of one line instead of whatever pixel-precise position you drag the mouse to. And using mac-standard "command" key shortcuts instead of different modes (for vim) or control-key ones (emacs). [Yes I know that can all be customized in vim/emacs, just talking about out-of-the-box]. Also the "project pane" in TextMate is very mac-like, whereas in Vim you have NerdTree which is totally text-based (in the sense that it's like "curses" graphics-via-ascii-characters as opposed to icons and lines and non-monospaced-fonts), or emacs which gives you the buffer list at the bottom (if I recall). And I was never able to figure out how to get a project-wide search going in Vim. Also, the window chrome, which I guess you could classify as "shiny", but little things like that do appeal to a lot of people -- same reason people like the shiny and smooth macbook hardware vs. more boxy windows laptops.

Not saying this is objectively better, just trying to answer your question. And of course I understand there are tradeoffs between polish versus flexibility. For example, the Mac editor Coda is super-duper shiny and maclike, but it's way too inflexible for my personal tastes, so I wouldn't use that. But something like TextMate seems to hit the sweet spot for me and a lot of other people.

Re: Chocolat - the new editor

#147

Post by snprbob86 »

swah wrote: post #123
snprbob86 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, I'm a Vim guy.

Cool. How do you get to that state (of having lots of buffers open) without accidentally closing Vim? My Vim sessions don't last long because I always :q with a single window and its gone.

I use :Ack pretty aggressively, so it is quite rare that I don't have a little search window open. If I close my last buffer, then the quickfix window takes up the whole screen and I quickly use :FuzzyFinderTextMate to open the next file.

So the only time I accidentally :q the last buffer is when I close all files, override my search results, don't run a new search, then close the only file. Needless to say, that is pretty rare.

Re: Chocolat - the new editor

#148

Post by snprbob86 »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #8
snprbob86 wrote: post #4

"Who doesn't like tabs?" In text editors? Me. I don't like thinking about which individual files are open. Any file under the root of my project (i.e. the editor's current working directory) is fair game for an open buffer. I treat open file as "go to class".

I like vim's tabs as a way of grouping kinds of buffers into a few categories, eg each tab might gave several split buffers representing a Django app per tab. This isn't how tabs work in most editors though.

Hmmm, very cool. I generally open multiple instances of MacVim for multiple projects. Apparently tabs can have a working directory each. Really interesting... going to have to experiment with this.

Re: Chocolat - the new editor

#149

Post by tincholio »

jordanlev wrote: post #146
tincholio wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do you mean by a better UI? The fact that it's Cocoa? Admittedly, I haven't tried your editor (and most likely won't), but can you briefly tell how the UI is any better than that of Emacs or Vim, other than being "shiny"?

I can't speak for the developer, but as a TextMate user who has dabbled in vim/emacs over the years, my take on this is it's about "polish". Like MacVim is line-based, and when you scroll or resize the window, it moves in "chunks" of one line instead of whatever pixel-precise position you drag the mouse to. And using mac-standard "command" key shortcuts instead of different modes (for vim) or control-key ones (emacs)…

Thanks for the reply! I myself feel that those UI improvements (such as the smooth scrolling) are too minor to sacrifice the editing and extension power that Emacs and Vim give their users, but to each their own, I guess.

BTW, you can get Mac shortcuts out of the box using Aquamacs (I don't use it myself, but IIRC they're even porting it to Cocoa, so it should gain some UI bling as well).

Re: Chocolat - the new editor

#150

Post by [deleted] »

alextgordon wrote: post #127
snprbob86 wrote: post #4

"Who doesn't like tabs?" In text editors? Me. I don't like thinking about which individual files are open. Any file under the root of my project (i.e. the editor's current working directory) is fair game for an open buffer. I treat open file as "go to class".

[developer here] Honestly, that line betrays my own apathy towards the feature. I hardly ever use them. They probably should be dead. However! There is currently a plan (with associated scary-looking diagrams) to change how tabs behave[1]. Essentially, you'd be able to use a tab for each logical grouping of open files. For example, in a django project, you might create a tab for each separate app you're working on. O…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN