Gab.com’s Response to Congress • Hacker News Board

Re: Gab.com’s Response to Congress

#131

Post by jcranmer » Thu, Sep 02, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #58

minikites wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, because it's not about having a platform for speech, it's about escaping consequences for speech.

What consequences should there be for exercising the right to free speech? What say aclu?

Parallel to freedom of speech is freedom of association. The consequence to exercising your right to free speech is that other people might decide you're too horrible a person to work with.

Consider this hypothetical situation. Imagine your favorite actor comes out with some really, really horrible political views, like women should be the chattel slaves of their male guardians. For a lot of people, even maybe you yourself, discovering this about a person is going to heavily color your views not only of him but of other things he does, and you're not going to enjoy seeing films he stars in any more. Since the film studios aren't idiots, he's going to be essentially blacklisted from any future roles. There's the consequences.

Re: Gab.com’s Response to Congress

#132

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 02, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

prvc wrote: post #105

drewrv wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me like there are more forums for free speech now than ever before. When in our history has it been easier for the average citizen to find a platform to host their views?

Yesterday. After that, last week, easier; then last year, yet easier; 5 years ago, easier still, and so on. I will not speculate as to when the maximum was reached, but it was somewhere between the creation of the internet and the present.

[deleted]

Re: Gab.com’s Response to Congress

#133

Post by mc32 » Thu, Sep 02, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #131

mc32 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What consequences should there be for exercising the right to free speech? What say aclu?

Parallel to freedom of speech is freedom of association. The consequence to exercising your right to free speech is that other people might decide you're too horrible a person to work with. Consider this hypothetical situation. Imagine your favorite actor comes out with some really, really horrible political views, like women should be the chattel slaves of their male guardians. For a lot of people, even maybe you yo…

[flagged]

Re: Gab.com’s Response to Congress

#134

Post by aww_dang » Thu, Sep 02, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #123

aww_dang wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When in our history... Before the masses were corralled into walled gardens. If a free and open Internet was a threat to gatekeepers, walled gardens are the solution. You can say anything you want on their platforms, as long as it adheres to the party's content guidelines. The gate-kept illusion of freedom is arguably more toxic, because it normalizes the curated garden of propagandized views. Yes, you have more opt…

>Before the masses were corralled into walled gardens. I'm not sure how old you are, but when is this time you speak of? AOL had users in a walled garden for decades. Then those users moved to myspace, then facebook. You're going to need to be more specific about this magical time when the average user was somehow "free of walled gardens".

The drink coaster distributor was popular without a doubt. They never factored into my use of the Internet. Without fact-check, there's a mild equivalence at best. It is hard not to encounter platforms and their agendas in some form today.

The free hosting providers were not engaging in political censorship. Google had a maxim, "Don't be evil". They didn't have infoboxes explaining, "Experts agree that enhanced interrogation is not torture".

Re: Gab.com’s Response to Congress

#135

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Sep 02, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #130

otterley wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal discovery process actually is a dragnet. The major operational difference is that discovery is responsive — that is, you turn over the records yourself - vs. a search warrant, where law enforcement comes in and searches everything within its scope.

But this is like there being a rape in town and the police asking all males, no exceptions, to submit a sample of their DNA to clear them. No, thanks!

> this is like there being a rape in town and the police asking all males, no exceptions, to submit a sample of their DNA to clear them

This is not how discovery works. The closest analogy would be a rape occurring and the police announcing an investigation, requesting anyone with information to come forward and warning anyone against deleting incriminating evidence.

The analogy is messy because you're comparing a Congressional inquiry with a criminal investigation.

Re: Gab.com’s Response to Congress

#136

Post by slumdev » Thu, Sep 02, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #123

aww_dang wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When in our history... Before the masses were corralled into walled gardens. If a free and open Internet was a threat to gatekeepers, walled gardens are the solution. You can say anything you want on their platforms, as long as it adheres to the party's content guidelines. The gate-kept illusion of freedom is arguably more toxic, because it normalizes the curated garden of propagandized views. Yes, you have more opt…

>Before the masses were corralled into walled gardens. I'm not sure how old you are, but when is this time you speak of? AOL had users in a walled garden for decades. Then those users moved to myspace, then facebook. You're going to need to be more specific about this magical time when the average user was somehow "free of walled gardens".

Compuserve and a number of other credible alternatives to AOL existed during that time. Usenet and BBSes also existed. Myspace and Facebook (initially) were only for teenagers, college students, and people who never grew out of those phases. You might as well put Livejournal in this list, because none of those platforms (at those times) were as effective at corralling and suppressing wrongthink as Twitter and Facebook have been today.

Re: Gab.com’s Response to Congress

#137

Post by otterley » Thu, Sep 02, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #130

otterley wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal discovery process actually is a dragnet. The major operational difference is that discovery is responsive — that is, you turn over the records yourself - vs. a search warrant, where law enforcement comes in and searches everything within its scope.

But this is like there being a rape in town and the police asking all males, no exceptions, to submit a sample of their DNA to clear them. No, thanks!

Discovery isn't used in criminal cases, and no court would grant such a request anyway.

Re: Gab.com’s Response to Congress

#138

Post by bambax » Thu, Sep 02, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #126

bambax wrote: post #87

> we believe – as Justice Brandeis did – that “sunlight is the best disinfectant, electric light the most efficient policeman.” Not true. There is no evidence that electric light helps deter crime (and of course sunlight is not a disinfectant either). https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:33WBZA...

That's an obvious metaphor. Why are you interpreting it literally?

The first response to my comment (by lvass) insists, with apparent seriousness, that it is literally true. I think it is not superfluous to mention it isn't.

Also, how does it work as a metaphor? What are the metaphorical "infections" that "sunlight" defeats? Conspiracies? Fake news? There has never been more information available, and there also has never been more conspiracies and stupid theories about everything.

So, also as a metaphor, sunlight is not a disinfectant.

Re: Gab.com’s Response to Congress

#139

Post by tootie » Thu, Sep 02, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #28

> All internal or external reviews, studies, reports, data, analyses, and related communications regarding your platform and (i) misinformation, disinformation and malinformation relating to the 2020 election; (ii) efforts to overturn, challenge, or otherwise interfere with the 2020 election or the certification of electoral college results; (iii) Domestic violent extremists, etc.; and (iv) foreign malign influence i…

The request appears to be for reviews and analysis, not the actual activity logs.

Re: Gab.com’s Response to Congress

#140

Post by thrwaway9871 » Thu, Sep 02, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

striking wrote: post #64

thrwaway9871 wrote: post #37

Funny test: this post has 61 votes, 16 comments, is 21 minutes old and is on front page. It will be "dead" and off the front page in the next hour if usual hn moderation is applied. This usually happens to thread where majority of comments go against the grain. Edit: thread is a bit over 1 hour old, 125 points, 119 comments and on page 4. All the other threads on page 4 are of comparable vote/comment count but at lea…

You should email the mods. They're very nice, and will take the time to explain the reason some item fell off the front page. Sometimes it's because a lot of people (not mods) flagged it; sometimes it's because the flame war detector is tripped and a mod may choose not to reset it. They'll tell you.

I truly believe they are nice people. The problem is the discussion will be dead long ago before that happens.

Can you confirm this thread is around page four or five at the moment?