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UK national extradited to US for film/TV piracy

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Re: UK national extradited to US for film/TV piracy

#161

Post by satellite2 »

It's interesting as on HN frontpage today there is also a book about a VC explaining that we are switching in a new post material scarcity era and that the economy is transforming into one where only attention is scarce.

It's really on point as it's clear from many papers and years on research on piracy that mostly people that downloaded pirated content would not have bought it but might still buy derivatives (and do in average). So generally piracy is a net positive for copyright holder.

Nevertheless, this group members were chased and prosecuted around the world as their crime is that they unfairly competed for people's attention which is transforming into our world currency.

Re: UK national extradited to US for film/TV piracy

#162

Post by eurasiantiger »

burnished wrote: post #142
aasasd wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you put out a product on a medium whose design is fundamentally based on copying bits, I don't know how you can expect anything else to happen. Exactly! If you exist in the universe where things can poke other things, don't get grumpy when you walk out the door and get stabbed. Should've sat on your ass at home.

Yes! If you go out and get stabbed by a falling branch you've got no recourse. Of course, the argument you seem to be advocating for hinges on showing how a copy represents material harm. The usual argument is it represents a lost sale. Still not sure how you get sent to jail over that though, maybe the argument itself doesn't have much weight but the people invoking it can push their weight around.

The usual argument has been shown false by many studies: piracy, in fact, spreads awareness of cultural products and thus creates sales that would otherwise never have happened. It is essentially free advertising.

Re: UK national extradited to US for film/TV piracy

#163

Post by HotHotLava »

lolinder wrote: post #96
HotHotLava wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in that strawman version of the argument, competing publishers would not be able to "steal" all the profit because they also could only sell the books more or less at cost. The price floor for physical books in such a world would, I imagine, be set by some chinese on-demand printing factories. Business models for authors would shift towards patreon supporters, subscription fees for periodical releases, signed co…

Definitely not looking forward to the day of ad-supported ebooks. "Sponsored" paragraphs injected into the middle of a chapter? Or maybe flashy banner ads alongside? Sounds like a nightmare.

Back in the 90s in Germany, Heyne Verlag was infamously inserting ads for Maggi Instant Soup [1] into the text of many of its Sci-Fi and Fantasy novels.

[1]: https://gmkeros.wordpress.com/2011/09/02/terry-pratchett-and...

Re: UK national extradited to US for film/TV piracy

#165

Post by f1refly »

dangjc wrote: post #134

He stole intellectual property and deserves to be prosecuted. With abundant streaming options these days and threat of being cut off from your ISP, few people pirate films anymore in the US. This is not normal, tolerable practice anymore. People’s livelihoods depend on these industries. A lot of the people here on hacker news make a living from producing intellectual property.

He stole nothing, he merely copied. The abundant streaming options are abusive and leave the "customer" without rights and without options. This is normal, tolerable practice. A lot of people here on hackernews would make just the same, as unpermitted copying has been shown to have an unnoticable, if not positive effect on movie payoff.

Re: UK national extradited to US for film/TV piracy

#166

Post by tpoacher »

tptacek wrote: post #83
ssklash wrote: post #12

It is insane to me that someone can get up to 5 years or more for using one of the fundamental mechanisms of digital technology. If you put out a product on a medium whose design is fundamentally based on copying bits , I don't know how you can expect anything else to happen. Instead of accepting the reality of digital communications, the MPAA, RIAA, and the like lobby to have the law protect their outdated but favor…

These people are accused of fraudulently obtaining the bits that they copied, which suggests that your whole argument would apply just as directly to credit card numbers, which are also just bits, amenable to the fundamental mechanisms of technology. As for the sentencing, as always: https://www.popehat.com/2013/02/05/crime-whale-sushi-sentenc...

I take the point of the linked article, but I offer this as a rebuttal:

Every time I sign a contract (in which I am effectively the "Party with less power TM") there's some sort of "maximum" clause, where if you ask the issuer they 'll say "oh this is just a formality in reality this doesn't happen".

Upon which, if you say well just remove it then, they'll reply "oh this is just a formality in reality this doesn't happen".

At which point, you'll say well just remove it then, and they'll reply "oh this is just a formality in reality this doesn't happen".

Where you then go, "uh..." and they repeat "oh this is just a formality in reality this doesn't happen".

Etc ad nauseam.

Clearly it is not just a formality, clearly it can happen, and even if it does not, that number is not exactly irrelevant and can be used for leverage. So yes, it's worth diverting attention to and calling it out when unreasonable, rather than rely on the assumption that it likely won't be used.

Re: UK national extradited to US for film/TV piracy

#167

Post by andy_ppp »

tptacek wrote: post #156
andy_ppp wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying; of course there would be consequences for doing the stupid straw man you’ve suggested, I just don’t believe unless you can prove harm (and piracy doesn’t cause anyone harm) you should be put in jail, let alone extradited.

That wasn't the argument made upthread. That argument was an appeal to the fundamental nature of data, that its nature is to be copied. That's true of all data, not just the data you want to see copied.

Yes, and there is credit card information leaked all the time correct? Making it illegal to copy credit card info has actually allowed banks to get away with an extremely insecure system of transferring money. Maybe it would be best if it were always legal to copy bits but the actual crimes were shown by the harms to other done.

Re: UK national extradited to US for film/TV piracy

#168

Post by tsukikage »

ssklash wrote: post #12

It is insane to me that someone can get up to 5 years or more for using one of the fundamental mechanisms of digital technology. If you put out a product on a medium whose design is fundamentally based on copying bits , I don't know how you can expect anything else to happen. Instead of accepting the reality of digital communications, the MPAA, RIAA, and the like lobby to have the law protect their outdated but favor…

> "Doubleday doesn't own the pages of the books they sell me."

This may be a surprise to people born in the digital era and thus unused to such obsolete technology, but photocopying books is also illegal.

Re: UK national extradited to US for film/TV piracy

#169

Post by 29athrowaway »

andy_ppp wrote: post #127
29athrowaway wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many serious electronic crimes can be described as copying bits. Like illegally exfiltrating and distributing PII, credit card info, etc.

I still think those shouldn’t be crimes, stealing money (or causing money to be stolen) should be a crime.

Or stealing things valued in money, like films and TV shows.

By accessing the content you are agreeing that the content is valuable to you.

Re: UK national extradited to US for film/TV piracy

#170

Post by BoxOfRain »

enkid wrote: post #68
sonicggg wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it quite disgusting countries that agree to extradite their own nationals, it smells like subservience.

Yeah, people should totally be able to kill someone than go back to their own country and never be held accountable.

You mean like the American citizen who ran down and killed a British teenager and will never face anything remotely close to justice for it?

I’m usually quite an Atlanticist but even I think these extradition treaties are awful.

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