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Reddit bans anti-vaccine subreddit r/NoNewNormal after site-wide protest

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Re: Reddit bans anti-vaccine subreddit r/NoNewNormal after site-wide protest

#81

Post by mcphage »

betwixthewires wrote: post #41

Remember when it was a slippery slope fallacy to suggest that this sort of thing would go beyond banning fatpeoplehate? I haven't used reddit in 2 years. I'm not a vaccine denier or anything like that, but why would I want to use a public discussion tool that disallows public discussion? I think though this points to an architectural problem with the multi community link aggregator/forum concept. Fact is, when you ha…

> but why would I want to use a public discussion tool that disallows public discussion?

Alternately, why would I want a public discussion tool that lets low effort garbage memes fill the public channels with effluent?

Re: Reddit bans anti-vaccine subreddit r/NoNewNormal after site-wide protest

#82

Post by ipspam »

seattle_spring wrote: post #64
ipspam wrote: post #36

I thought this post by a former mod of another forum that went through this was interesting. https://patriots.win/p/12kFPq7oFY/recap-on-how-rnonewnormal-...

How do you feel about some of the other posts and comments from that same community? For example: https://imgur.com/a/wIFDa8G

I don't see a problem. They seem more like trolls and people with mental health issues like conspiratorial thinking on a spectrum that ends in schitzo.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's reprehensible. I just don't take these people seriously. They exist, they have a right to exist, and they are going to spew their bullshit everywhere.

What I'm really not willing to accept is a game of cat and mouse where normal everyday activists pose as these kinds of people and say the worst things they can in order to shut down discussion.

I'm not for giving a small handful of people the power to shut down discussions they don't like by pretending to be alt right anti-Semites.

Re: Reddit bans anti-vaccine subreddit r/NoNewNormal after site-wide protest

#83

Post by chrismcb »

beebmam wrote: post #73
petermcneeley wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think this article questions if this is legal. Many companies do things that are Legal but are perhaps unethical or just not aligned with consumer interests. Your focus on legality to me is completely irrelevant at this stage. People want to discuss if this decision was a good idea or bad idea.

I don't care for moralizing. If you're not going to make a legal argument, I really couldn't care less. Companies aren't ethical; they obey laws. That's all they will do. Often, ethics become law. If you care about this at all, figure out what laws you want and organize to pass them.

Companies do more to than just obey laws. Or rather, what is legal or illegal isn't the issue. Places like Reddit have banned legal speech, just because. There was no law saying they had to. They did it because they wanted to. Making this a legal issue, it only discussing legal issues is weird

Re: Reddit bans anti-vaccine subreddit r/NoNewNormal after site-wide protest

#84

Post by dredmorbius »

garaetjjte wrote: post #80
dredmorbius wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I didn't base my argument on Schenck. What I did was to take the metaphor of a dissenting opinion [Note: majority opinion, see comments below, my error] and then invert it (which would make any precedent invalid regardless) for the purpose of posing a question: what can we ask about the nature of harm caused by denying a threat, most especially when there is a self-serving interest in doing so? Schenck was a bad…

>Schenck was a bad ruling, it's been overturned, and Holmes's argument appeared in a dissent . I'm not sure I follow. Holmes authored opinions for unanimous decisions for upholding convictions of peaceful criticism of draft in Schenck , Debs and Frohwerk . https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha...

You're right, my error. I've updated my comment to note that, though I've left my error standing.

I was thinking of the subsequent Abrams case (only a few months later in 1919) where Holmes departed from the Majority. That disagreement became the Great Dissent (and recent-ish book of the same title).

If I can somewhat cover for myself: Holmes in Schenck, and yes, writing for the majority, offered the "fire in a crowded theatre" hypothetical as not deserving protection.

Again: partiall overturned later in Brandenburg (1969).

My point remains that I'm not actually using Holme's hypo but one derived from it, and again, with a direct-gain motive added to that.

Re: Reddit bans anti-vaccine subreddit r/NoNewNormal after site-wide protest

#85

Post by effingwewt »

Asraelite wrote: post #43
abstractbarista wrote: post #15

It is time: I've deleted my account after clearing all posts and comments. Don't want to leave anything of value behind.

I can't count the number of times that I've come across a would-be useful comment that would solve exactly the issue I'm having, only for it to have been deleted. Hating the site is fair, but honestly what you're doing is really shitty. Thank god Pushshift exists.

That's the point though. Reddit wants some posts and not others, best way to stop them getting what they want is deleting all comments exactly so less people will go to the site.

Reddit called itself a bastion for free speech then walked it back for Chinese investors, and were surprised at the backlash.

The original ban wave was the exact reason the delete scripts were conceived.

Re: Reddit bans anti-vaccine subreddit r/NoNewNormal after site-wide protest

#86

Post by effingwewt »

beebmam wrote: post #11

It is not legal (and should not be legal) for people to force privately owned companies to publish speech that those companies don't want to publish. Hacker News itself does this all the time; there's plenty of topics and conversations that aren't allowed to be posted here. And people get banned/silenced all the time. And that's good! That's what healthy moderation looks like.

No, it's not. When people can downvote correct information without a reason, it makes HN objectively worse. And it happens all the time.

Eventually you may find yourself on the receiving end, will you think censorship is good then?

Re: Reddit bans anti-vaccine subreddit r/NoNewNormal after site-wide protest

#87

Post by tablespoon »

ipspam wrote: post #36

I thought this post by a former mod of another forum that went through this was interesting. https://patriots.win/p/12kFPq7oFY/recap-on-how-rnonewnormal-...

> In early August, we first heard about the plans by “powermods” (moderators of very large and influential subreddits) to hold “blackouts” (where they take their subreddits private, disallowing posting) in an effort to force Reddit, Inc (a $10 billion company) to change its policies.

I'm surprised that works, and that the Reddit admins let it work.

If I were Reddit, I'd probably cave, but then make a code change so that "very large and influential subreddits" cannot implement those settings changes without admin approval. I wouldn't want to cede so much power to a few users. If done at the right time (e.g. when there's no big meta controversy), it might not even cause that much weeping and gnashing of teeth. I doubt most Reddit users care that much about mod powers.

Re: Reddit bans anti-vaccine subreddit r/NoNewNormal after site-wide protest

#88

Post by hammyhavoc »

ufmace wrote: post #61
b0sk wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no rational discussion to be had between homeopathy doctor and an oncologist, for example. It's just a waste of bandwidth and source of misinformation which is killing innocents.

One could just as easily say that there's no point in trying to have a rational discussion with people who want to compare anyone who disagrees with the worst thing they can come up with. If you wonder what kind of content is actually on subs like NoNewNormal, you could just go on and see for yourself. Well actually, now you can't anymore, because they're gone. Which leaves their enemies free to smear them as the wor…

Can't people just look at the sub via archive.org?

Re: Reddit bans anti-vaccine subreddit r/NoNewNormal after site-wide protest

#90

Post by rex-mundi »

betwixthewires wrote: post #65
rex-mundi wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you find a replacement for reddit you like?

I like something called littr.me, single community link aggregator (like HN) but federates, so you get the interaction between communities but each community is sovereign, free to isolate itself as it pleases. https://github.com/mariusor/go-littr But it isn't about "a replacement for reddit." It is about finding communities online you want to engage in and engaging. Forums, non-federated aggregators (like HN), chatro…

Thanks, sounds interesting, I'll check it out.

Your probably write about avoiding the on stop shop.

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