Live data from Hacker News

PGP Is Dead? (2018)

wired.co.uk

21–30 of 53 posts

Re: PGP Is Dead? (2018)

#21
> Users have a public key and a private key – senders use the former to encrypt messages, which can only be decoded by someone who has access to the latter.

Kind of nitpicky, but I'll be cautious taking clickbaity claims like "PGP is dead" from someone who makes such a mistake in their first paragraph.

Re: PGP Is Dead? (2018)

#22
Yes, PGP is dead but not because of any of the reasons this article points out.

It's dead for a very simple reason: it's really hard to find active PGP/GPG keyservers.

Fedora keyserver? Dead

Debian keyserver? Dead

openSUSE keyserver? Dead

SKS keyserver pool? Dead

keys.gnupg.net? Dead

keys.openpgp.org? Half-dead (HKPS access not working, it seems only web is working) etc

Very few keyservers are still online and some of then don't sync with the others (e. g. keyserver.pgp.com).

Re: PGP Is Dead? (2018)

#23

> Users have a public key and a private key – senders use the former to encrypt messages, which can only be decoded by someone who has access to the latter. Kind of nitpicky, but I'll be cautious taking clickbaity claims like "PGP is dead" from someone who makes such a mistake in their first paragraph.

It's more like they're sloppy than that they've made a mistake.

The session key would be encrypted with the recipient's public key so that they (and hopefully only they) can decrypt it and then decrypt the message encrypted with the session key. The sender would use the recipient's public key.

Re: PGP Is Dead? (2018)

#25

> Users have a public key and a private key – senders use the former to encrypt messages, which can only be decoded by someone who has access to the latter. Kind of nitpicky, but I'll be cautious taking clickbaity claims like "PGP is dead" from someone who makes such a mistake in their first paragraph.

It's more like they're sloppy than that they've made a mistake. The session key would be encrypted with the recipient's public key so that they (and hopefully only they) can decrypt it and then decrypt the message encrypted with the session key. The sender would use the recipient's public key.

That's my point. Someone with such little attention to detail that they're this sloppy has no business dictating to the world anything really. Either you don't know what you're talking about or you don't proof read before you publish. Either way don't tell me what's dead and what's not.

Re: PGP Is Dead? (2018)

#26
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PGP is literally thirty years old now, and I'm not aware of any significant changes sounds like a good thing to me

That's a bad thing. PGP has some really awful usability problems which have never been addressed. The paper "Why Johnny Can't Encrypt" described some of these issues in 1999, and a series of followups ("Why Johnny Still Can't Encrypt", "Why Johnny Still, Still Can't Encrypt"...) have come out over the years confirming that it still hasn't improved.

PGP is a protocol, not a client. It should be up to clients to make it easy to use. You can setup PGP in Thunderbird in one minute https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/openpgp-thunderbird-how...

Edit: maybe what seems easy to me can seem hard to someone else. Not sure if I'm having a bias here.

Re: PGP Is Dead? (2018)

#27
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PGP is literally thirty years old now, and I'm not aware of any significant changes sounds like a good thing to me

That's a bad thing. PGP has some really awful usability problems which have never been addressed. The paper "Why Johnny Can't Encrypt" described some of these issues in 1999, and a series of followups ("Why Johnny Still Can't Encrypt", "Why Johnny Still, Still Can't Encrypt"...) have come out over the years confirming that it still hasn't improved.

Someone should carry out a study where they test whether people can create a ProtonMail account and send an email from it (with a control group trying to do the same using Gmail). They could title the resulting research paper "Why Johnny Can Now Encrypt".

Re: PGP Is Dead? (2018)

#28
post #12

"Let's ditch open protocol X that has worked well for decades, in favour or closed protocol Y. Because of some transient issue with open protocol X, it's now time for open protocol X to die" Heard that before? It's as if if your doctor told you it's now time for you to die because you caught a cold.

> Let's ditch open protocol X that has worked well for decades To be fair, I really can't put PGP in the category of "open protocol X that has worked well for decades"[1]. I'd welcome a closed protocol that actually works over an "open" one that's been functionally broken for years. [1] https://latacora.micro.blog/2019/07/16/the-pgp-problem.html

The problem is that email is store-and-forward, and there's no standard for MUAs to independently interact and perform key exchanges via PGP or anything, so end-to-end encrypted email will always be a much worse experience than end-to-end encrypted IM.

Also, the heterogeneous MUA world, and the fact that users expect to be able to search their email even if encrypted, just makes end-to-end encrypted email a really tough proposition.

I could see something like OTR+PGP for email that could work, but the MUAs would have to get updates, and MUAs are "a solved problem". There's just no real work ongoing on MUAs.

Re: PGP Is Dead? (2018)

#29

> Of course, there are potential problems with allowing private companies to hold the keys to all of your sensitive conversations. But, these projects are generally less vulnerable than PGP because they are independent, says Green. > “When something goes wrong with WhatsApp, WhatsApp fixes it,” he says. “When something goes wrong in the amorphous PGP community, no one puts their hand up to fix it. This is some whacky…

The general argument is that open protocols tend to be stagnant while private ones are not, and that is true. Private protocols can iterate faster, have a vested financial interest to not lose customers, are often not required to be as backwards compatible which further slows updates and they can tightly integrate from backend to user. Open protocols always tend to be disjointed, i.e Email + PGP whereas something lik…

> have a vested financial interest to not lose customers

This is just as satisfiable - if not more so - with slick marketing and platitudes than with actual security.

Post reply on HN