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System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

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Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#391
post #7

I say it every time every time one of these threads pop up and I’ll say it again here: if it’s not 16:10 or 3:2 I’m simply not interested. I buy devices like this for productivity. I don't care about black bars when watching videos because I don't watch videos on it. What I absolutely care about is the extra inch of text in my terminal or text editor. I didn't think this was a controversial opinion.

I miss 16:10 for coding use, but that ship has long since sailed. It's not like laptop manufacturers arbitrarily made the decision. TV display resolutions drive the market, display panel manufacturers target that market, and laptop manufacturers come along for the ride. There's no competitive advantage to fighting that reality. The sooner you come to terms with it the better off you'll be.

> I miss 16:10 for coding use, but that ship has long since sailed.

Macbook Air and Macbook Pro have 16:10 resolution.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#392
post #7

I say it every time every time one of these threads pop up and I’ll say it again here: if it’s not 16:10 or 3:2 I’m simply not interested. I buy devices like this for productivity. I don't care about black bars when watching videos because I don't watch videos on it. What I absolutely care about is the extra inch of text in my terminal or text editor. I didn't think this was a controversial opinion.

I miss 16:10 for coding use, but that ship has long since sailed. It's not like laptop manufacturers arbitrarily made the decision. TV display resolutions drive the market, display panel manufacturers target that market, and laptop manufacturers come along for the ride. There's no competitive advantage to fighting that reality. The sooner you come to terms with it the better off you'll be.

Because there exist so many counter examples in MacBooks, Surface products, Huawei products, the Framework laptop, Dell XPS laptops, and a couple of ThinkPads I will continue asking for what I want.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I miss 16:10 for coding use, but that ship has long since sailed. It's not like laptop manufacturers arbitrarily made the decision. TV display resolutions drive the market, display panel manufacturers target that market, and laptop manufacturers come along for the ride. There's no competitive advantage to fighting that reality. The sooner you come to terms with it the better off you'll be.

> I miss 16:10 for coding use, but that ship has long since sailed. Macbook Air and Macbook Pro have 16:10 resolution.

I stand corrected. Fair enough.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#394
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea who thought this was a good idea. The trackpad is even off to the left to accommodate it. I'm not a fan of symmetry for symmetry's sake, but I do think some affordances for the human body might be a good idea. How do southpaws enjoy this keyboard setup? The ergonomics of laptops are bad enough without stuff like this.

As this thread is highlighting, in my experience there are two kinds of keyboard users. Those that love their numberpad, and those that never use it. There seems to rarely be people in the middle. On desktops it mostly doesn't matter because you can shift the keyboard over relative to the screen. On laptops this translates into people completely loathing or loving the laptop entirely :) Personally in the never use it…

I love the numpad but not as much as the space it takes.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#395
post #354
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, stronger meaning what? Usually tensile strength. For example: Tensile strength: even a commodity PA6-GF30 (most half-decent tools are made of) is ~110MPa [according to ISO 527], cast Aluminum - would be ~150MPa (22K psi for the imperial folks) depending on the alloy. Of course, most laptops would be using an ABS blend, which is the hallmark low-quality tools. >Dents That would depend on the top finish, not so…

> >Dents > That would depend on the top finish, not so much of the material itself. Would it? If I dropped an aluminium bodied laptop like a Macbook or HP Envy, I'd expect it might scuff and slightly dent at the point of impact. If I dropped the cheapest plastic bodied thing from Currys/Walmart/whatever, I'd expect it might scuff and crack the plastic between screws or something. What top finish would you apply to a…

Plasti-dip.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The XPS won't have AMD, and the Thinkpads with Linux pre-installed are pretty limited.

Lots of cheaper, equivalent laptops have AMD. The new Intel processors and GPUs are nice. The System76 is overpriced.

Yes, you can get cheaper laptops. Whether they are "equivalent" is a matter of what you consider "equivalent". Certainly you can get Clevo from other sources at a lower price. They just don't come with the same enduring Linux support, let alone niceties like coreboot, etc.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#397
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Southpaw here! I'd never buy a laptop without a number pad. The track pad being off-center is also good. Gaming? 78462 make for the best movement, and the number pad also has seven non-numerical buttons to bind things to. It also puts your index finger right next to lENTER, which is so useful for games that make use of it. Programming? Bind the buttons to commonly-used UNIX programs to make for a better IDE than an I…

>gaming Why skip 5 to use 2 instead? And you also have extra keys around WASD to bind to. What makes numpad keys any different? For lefties who use mouse with left hand you can have same keys on the right hand side but hat varies (for me equal keys would be plöä) >programming Are all of your function keys already populated? And if you are going to move your hand to numpad why skip over insert, home, page up/down, and…

> Why skip 5 to use 2 instead?

Walking backwards usually is slower in video games, so you can bind 5 to something you use more commonly. 7 is autorun. 5 makes a great button to set for fishing or your most-critical spell.

> And you also have extra keys around WASD to bind to. What makes numpad keys any different? For lefties who use mouse with left hand you can have same keys on the right hand side but hat varies (for me equal keys would be plöä)

The left side of the keyboard has more buttons, and you use those for complex combinations in video games, which leaves the number pad in a unique spot of being a "quick access" bar.

> Are all of your function keys already populated? And if you are going to move your hand to numpad why skip over insert, home, page up/down, and end?

On a good laptop keyboard, insert, home, end, pgup and pgdn are all directly above the number pad. This gives you extra buttons that are just a little out-of-the-way, but it doesn't make it so you have to reach your hands over them to reach the number pad. On the best laptop keyboard I've ever used, literally every button was just in a grid, with a few smaller (but still grid-fitting) buttons mixed in, like the arrow keys and function keys.

But yes, my function keys are already populated.

> Well there you have me. 20 years ago when I was manually inserting PSU serial numbers into excel numpad was real nice, but I can't remember last time I had to input numbers like that.

Anecdotally, I use calculators of various sorts as a way of verification while programming; a lot of the problems I find myself drawn to are close to abstracted math (as are most things when you aren't a web programmer), and it's really useful to be able to jot down an equation and verify you've handled the problem right before you commit to it.

> My current keyboard has numpad, but only thing I've used it in years was as abort button for some bots.

You should bind the buttons to be useful to you! It's very nice once you've done so.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did data entry for a job. In my experience, the numpad was considerably faster and accurate. It has been a long time, but I recall it cutting down entry time by ~5-6x (yes, I finished my daily quota in about an hour or two, instead of all day). The advantage was being able to use multiple fingers comfortably, without looking (there is a nice nub on most numpads) and leaving a hand free for letters/tabs. But like an…

Interesting, though data entry feels like something that should have been automated (even if source is paper).

You'd be amazed how much cheaper it is to have a human do it than pay for automation. But also, law/contract required the data to be accurate (so there were 3 people, at minimum, entering the exact same data and records would be flagged if any of the 3 did not match). OCR, at the time (and even now), is highly unreliable with human handwriting. Not that I disagree with your statement, automation would have been nice. And though I like to think we want humans doing higher-level things, a lot of the people there were happy to get decent pay and not have to think for their day job.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#399

I wish a person could order one of these without the numeric keypad. I deeply hate being off-center to the screen when typing on these larger portables.

I will never buy another laptop with a "short" right-shift key and the up-arrow next to it. For coding, it SUCKS to miss hit that and I never got use to it on the one laptop I've had with a keyboard like that.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#400
post #354
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, stronger meaning what? Usually tensile strength. For example: Tensile strength: even a commodity PA6-GF30 (most half-decent tools are made of) is ~110MPa [according to ISO 527], cast Aluminum - would be ~150MPa (22K psi for the imperial folks) depending on the alloy. Of course, most laptops would be using an ABS blend, which is the hallmark low-quality tools. >Dents That would depend on the top finish, not so…

> >Dents > That would depend on the top finish, not so much of the material itself. Would it? If I dropped an aluminium bodied laptop like a Macbook or HP Envy, I'd expect it might scuff and slightly dent at the point of impact. If I dropped the cheapest plastic bodied thing from Currys/Walmart/whatever, I'd expect it might scuff and crack the plastic between screws or something. What top finish would you apply to a…

I would not consider cracks "dents". I already mentioned the cheap 'ABS' plastic, they would crack (also it's not UV stable). You can look up PA6-GF30 (nylon, 30% glass fiber reinforced) tools and they survive ~2m (6 feet) drop tests. Laptops won't do that as their screens would crash. Here: a popular video[0] of some massive abuse of a multimeter.

Again, a good plastic with glass or carbon fiber reinforcement would have similar properties to al-mg body, yet feel cheap as most people consider all plastics quite the same. For example: polycarbonate, 30% carbon fiber would have tensile strength of 150MPa (which the same to cast aluminum)

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlA7-fh5nDQ

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